UK: Children as young as 13 to be asked whether they are 'gender fluid', 'demi-girl' or 'intersex' in government-backed survey 'committed to feminist methodologies'.

con3131 · 2016-01-28T08:34:07+00:00

Some of the options are so stupid. We have 1. Girl 2. Boy 3. Male. 4. Female. 5. Young woman 6. Young man.

The article states that the research has been condemned by critics, and the survey has been withdrawn. "Apparently" it was a draft.

Also, do people not think a questionnaire like this would be answered like the religion part of the consensus (stating you're a jedi)? I would definitely just play around with this and select the most ridiculous sounding one.

actingverystrangely · 2016-01-28T06:25:43+00:00

Someone I know has gone down the rabbit hole of gender identity dysphoria. She was a charming teenage girl until she encountered Tumblr.

Now she is planning to transition to a male. Breasts chopped off, hormone treatment, the full Monty. She/he is 16. She/he is surly, spends all of her/his time on Tumblr and all of her/his 'friends' are Tumblrinas, many of whom, amazingly, also have gender identity dysphoria.

The child no longer talks to one biological parent, has suicide attempts after a period of self harm, and is withdrawn and has anxiety and depression issues. I can't say which came first, mental health issues or gender identity dysphoria, but I can say that her life is fucked up beyond belief, her parent's lives are FUBBd, and no good will come from the surgeon's knife.

It isn't a silly fad; it is life changing.

192873982 · 2016-01-28T12:44:46+00:00

Do these options even make logical sense, when ignoring biology?

Girl, tomboy, female, young woman are all the same to me, i can't really see any relation to gender.

Same for boy, male, young man.

So until now the gender is an element of the set {male, female}.

Then we can increase the spectrum by defining the gender as an element of the set {male brain, female brain}x{male body, female body}, which makes four option now. I hope you know sets and the cross product to understand that.

Then to add gender fluid, we would have to add time into this somehow.

So the new gender requires a function f:t -> gender for every person. The gender would be gender fluid if not for all t the gender is constant.

Pretty complicated if you ask me. Also why would anyone know that in some time in the future the gender may not change? This would actually make all people either gender fluid, or of unknown gender.

Now let's add agender. I add the empty set to the list of genders from after trans people and keep the function from gender fluid.

Now all people are still either gender fluid or unknown, where unknown can be all other genders, now including agender.

Now to add androgynous, I have to change the gender to a spectrum, instead of a finite set.

So we have f: time ->[male brain, female brain]x[male body, female body] U {emptyset} where a person is gender fluid if f isn't constant and f(current time) otherwise.

Still make mathematical sense, but it's getting insane.

Now bi-gender. Those who experience two gender identities at the same time (means I have to add that to my definition) or varying between the two (isn't that exactly what gender-fluid was? Except that gender fluid wasn't limited to two, so it's actually a subset).

Well... I don't care anymore. I just ignore the redundant part and add the first part.

So now the definition f gender is:

So we have f: time ->powerset([male brain, female brain]x[male body, female body] U {emptyset}) where a person is gender fluid if f isn't constant and f(current time) otherwise.

Then non-binary. I think I've already covered that one, so it's actually a useless term and covered by the other terms.

Now demi-boy is interesting. It adds the possibility to be less male without being more female somehow. Does that mean you are gender fluid if you feel less male from time to time? I don't even care, let's say yes.

So we have f: time ->[0%,100%] x powerset([male brain, female brain]x[male body, female body] U {emptyset}) where a person is gender fluid if f isn't constant and f(current time) otherwise.

Demi girl is obviously handled already by what I changed right now.

Now it get's complicated, what is gender queer in this alredy weird set of genders? I add a non-conventional option to the spectrum.

So we have f: time ->[0%,100%] x powerset(([male brain, female brain] U {non-conventional})x([male body, female body] U {non-conventional}) U {emptyset}) where a person is gender fluid if f isn't constant and f(current time) otherwise.

Tri gender is alredy covered, since I allow as many genders as you want alredy and they can change however you want.

All genders make no sense at all, since that depends on how many genders exist, which depends on all the other terms. But let's say we have that.

In the middle is also already covered, they just add some other names for things they alredy had... whatever.

Intersex is actually also alredy covered, since I added a range to the body type in the beginning.

Okay. Finished. This insanity that gives you no information at all is now what we call gender? Have I understood that correctly?

zutonofgoth · 2016-01-28T10:29:14+00:00

I hate discussing "Gender" full stop, because it invariably gets shut down as 'transphobia' or whatever.

It is like treading on eggshells and there is simply no way to discuss it without someone painting you as a villain if you so much as disagree with any of it.

That said, my view is children should be left well alone. I've seen the interest in identifying children as having gender dysphoria and I'm not exactly convinced, neither is the publicly available NHS guidelines about it. My concern is, it isn't necessarily the child's view being put forth, but that of adults looking for something to justify their own beliefs.

"My son wears a dress, he must have gender dysphoria", "my daughter plays with a football, must be a guy!" - I do believe these people exist, but it isn't in vogue to point them out.

I guess I'm 'old' or 'out of touch' with society. I'm not progressive in the sense of gender politics/identity. I'm all for sexuality, I'm all for transgenders and whatever, but I'm for the widening of gender itself as a construct, at least not the ones advocated by the tumblrinas of the world.

For that, I guess I should burn at the stake.

TheRavenousRabbit · 2016-01-28T12:51:18+00:00

A 13 year old has yet to figure out their own basic body parts. For them to understand these concepts is absolutely impossible.

mcavvacm · 2016-01-28T13:11:54+00:00

What?

Most children won't even know what the hell this means. I don't even know what this means!

SchalaZeal01 · 2016-01-28T07:03:11+00:00

I dont understand what theyre trying to do by enforcing this in schools...

Is it a way of population control to get ppl to turn into men/women?.. If so..ok...but otherwise..its just fukn insanity to be forcing this on the public

prime22 · 2016-01-28T19:03:21+00:00

Well intersex is an actual medical condition, albeit rare and diverse (multiple different intersex conditions) which would probably be on file already anyway...

rg57 · 2016-01-31T11:30:26+00:00

Presumably they asked this on the survey to find out what facilities are needed (they mention bathrooms).

The simple solution is to end segregated facilities altogether.

When I was in school, even though it was single-sex change rooms and bathrooms, nobody saw anyone else nude.

There's no reason to limit bathrooms and change rooms to single sex. Everyone of any sex should use the same facilities.

Open up the sink area to the hallway. Ensure stalls/showers have appropriate doors and locks.

There are other elements to consider, but proper design will solve the problem.

ThePigmanAgain · 2016-01-28T09:09:26+00:00

And so the madness continues.

thefinn12345 · 2016-01-28T08:29:42+00:00

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/this-8-year-old-boys-very-special-dream-just-came-true_us_568e844be4b0cad15e639b11?adsSiteOverride=au&section=australia

8 year old here being groomed quite obviously.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/12/transgender-children-have-to-respect-who-he-is

2 year old in the 2nd story. This isn't even close to being new news. This is what we got for being progressive on legalizing homosexuality i hate to say... (I was one of them too).

Title	UK: Children as young as 13 to be asked whether they are 'gender fluid', 'demi-girl' or 'intersex' in government-backed survey 'committed to feminist methodologies'.
Author	EliCaaash
Upvotes	84
Comments	53
Date	January 28, 2016 5:40 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/431ylo/uk_children_as_young_as_13_to_be_asked_whether/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-children-as-young-as-13-to-be-asked-whether.957528 https://theredarchive.com/post/957528

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