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Bret Easton Ellis on James Deen Rape Claims: "A Ridiculous Witch Hunt"

jujmj

December 12, 2015
220 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/bret-easton-ellis-james-deen-847935
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Post Information
Title Bret Easton Ellis on James Deen Rape Claims: "A Ridiculous Witch Hunt"
Author

jujmj

Upvotes 220
Comments 64
Date December 12, 2015 1:21 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3wgg1j/bret_easton_ellis_on_james_deen_rape_claims_a/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/bret-easton-ellis-on-james-deen-rape-claims-a.965326
https://theredarchive.com/post/965326
Top posts by jujmj

James Deen Breaks His Silence: ‘I Am Completely Baffled’ by Rape Allegations

406 upvotes
December 8, 2015
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]SuperPwnerGuy 55 points56 points57 points 10 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

After reading this article I think Deen should release the texts and emails claiming she's threatened false accusations before, That's domestic abuse, Also the fact that Stoyas accusation comes on the day of him buying a brand new house with his new girlfriend, And after he already backed out of a lucrative deal with Stoyas website.....It all just tells me that this is another case of an unstable and bitter ex-girlfriend looking to punish her ex-boyfriend for rejecting her.

He has to release the emails and texts

Stoya started this with a false accusation in the court of public opinion, Deen has to submit as much evidence as he can too, Just like a regular court of law. If he does have proof of her conspiring to and/or threaten a false accusation then it needs to come out so everyone can see the truth.

[+]InjectMeWithBacon -7 points-6 points-5 points 10 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

Stoya started this with a false accusation in the court of public opinion

How do you know it's false?

[–]bugo 34 points35 points36 points 10 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

Because you don't state true accusations on Twitter. You go for the police and they tell you to stay off social media and keep silent as not to impede the process.

[+]InjectMeWithBacon -10 points-9 points-8 points 10 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

Because you don't state true accusations on Twitter

Wut? It's false because she stated it on twitter?

[–]bugo 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

Because it hurts your legal case it you ever want to proceed with one. Also only assholes make such accusations without guilt being proven by the legal system. You know - innocent until proven guilty and such?

[–]InjectMeWithBacon -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

You know - innocent until proven guilty and such?

So why don't you apply that to Stoya then?

[–]foople 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I assume he/she did. As pointed out by /u/bugo, accusations via twitter are wrong even if true. It's easy to confirm the tweet happened and thus establish guilt.

It's wrong to judge Deen in the court of public opinion as he never sought to enter it. Stoya, however, purposely chose a trial by public opinion, and judging her (positively or negatively) is just. While some judge her negatively, thousands more supply her with support.

In all cases the correct response is to ignore the accusations of those we don't personally know, but the nature of celebrity exposes them to all of the benefits, and cost, of widespread pseudo familiarity.

[–]InjectMeWithBacon 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

thus establish guilt

That's hilariously bad reasoning. Because it a tweet, therefore it's false.

[–]foople 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think you're following me. She's guilty of accusing someone of rape in a public setting. It doesn't automatically mean the statement is a lie, just that it shouldn't be made publicly, particularly as a first course of action. The first course of action should be to go to the police. If the accusation is true, making it publicly will make it much harder to convict the perpetrator. If false, great harm is done to an innocent. Given that public accusations in the past have led to vigilante justice attempts and this put well meaning people attempting justice in prison, the potential for harming the lives of others is great. There is no case where the right answer is a public accusation as the very first step.

It's not illegal (although it could result in a successful suit for libel), but it is in poor taste and expresses poor judgement and disregard for others. She could be just as culpable as those that radicalized the latest planned parenthood attacker. We have a justice system for a reason.

Once it's established that someone has purposely requested a trial by public opinion, it's certainly valid to give them one. It's wrong to judge who they accused, but the accuser is fair game. This is just as true if the situation were reversed - if she filed official rape charges and Deen preemptively decided to publicly accuse her of making a false rape claim, he would be just as open to popular judgement.

[–]InjectMeWithBacon -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't automatically mean the statement is a lie

Then you agree with me.

[–]bugo 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Because she is the one throwing criminal accusations.

[–]InjectMeWithBacon -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

So they're false? How do you know?

[–]bugo 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No not false. She is just an asshole.

[–]sjwking 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You are a rapist.

[–]InjectMeWithBacon -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Well that would be true if I've ever raped anybody.

[–]ihavecandygetinmyvan 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Because Deen isn't the one that accused her. Are you slow or something?

[–]InjectMeWithBacon -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Umm, were talking about the claim that Stoya is making a false claim of rape. Did you experience extreme head trauma as a child?

[–]ihavecandygetinmyvan 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Go ahead and recycle my insult if you want. The way the concept "innocent until proven guilty" works is that the accused is innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise the burden of proof is on the accused, which is contrary to our justice system (although tragically that's often the case as we are witnessing with geniuses like you). If you want me to break it down further for you:

Stoya = accuser

Deen = accused

Any questions?

[–]InjectMeWithBacon -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The way the concept "innocent until proven guilty" works is that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.

So you don't apply that to Stoya? In no way has it been established that her claim of rape was false. If it was definitely a false claim then she should be prosecuted for it.

[+]Type40BlueBox -23 points-22 points-21 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Idk man she may have just not wanted other women to be assaulted.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points22 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How does an unsupported accusation via twitter help women more than a police investigation?

[–]7hunderpants 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Why did she not goto the police?! Because she is a psychopath liar.

female pornstars are fucked up in the head. Clearly this shows as much.

[–]Type40BlueBox 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Whoa thats a blanket judgement don't you think?

[–]7hunderpants 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

At best ten of them are fucked up mentally.

[–]7hunderpants 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What does it suggest to you, when ten female porn performers discredit a man via rape allegations without going to the police? A person has to be mentally unstable to do such a thing.

[–]Type40BlueBox 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk he might have shit on them. If someone went to the police about something I did I would immediately snitch on their ass. Btw I'm not saying I know whether or not they're telling the truth, James Deen is probably my favorite male porn star and I'm super hoping he's innocent. I just don't think there's any way of telling rn.

[–]UninvitedGhost 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's a pity you're being downvoted. We don't know. Based on the he said/she said, it sounds to me like they are fake. But I don't know. That's why it will be good if there are texts that support his side of the story. But only he and his accusers know if the accusations are false or not.

[–]InjectMeWithBacon 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed.

[–]gemaliasthe1st -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Everything you wrote here is hillarious

[–]NetContribution 11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Solidarity with Stoya! /s. What garbage. This victim culture surrounding the issue of sexual assault is ridiculous. The acceptable definition of "consent" has been pushed further and further to an extreme with absolutely 0 room for context. Like B.E.E. says, there's a sliding scale of offenses. An erect penis poking an ass on a BDSM porn set being referred to as anything more than "unprofessional" is a gross exaggeration and extremely disingenuous. Sometimes I seriously wonder if the whole "rape survivor" title all of his accusers are now able to self-proclaim carries some profound sense of false empowerment for these individuals. They are all able to now claim that "The patriarchy did its worst....I WAS RAPED!!! (but not really) Now I am a rape survivor! I am empowered!" Sort of like getting the respect of a combat veteran without actually ever have joined the armed forces. Just my very cynical and skeptical $0.02.

[–]kronox 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think about it the exact same way. It's called stolen valor. There's a reason people do it, it makes them feel powerful. There's an obvious incentive for these women to jump on the valor train before it leaves the station, I'm just glad it wasn't more.

[–]NetContribution 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Stolen Valor." That is the perfect terminology to equate this phenomenon with. It really is pathetic. I feel that this is a symptom of an overarching defect in our society.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This author has already suffered at the hands of idiot feminists who regularly smear his books as sexist and misogynistic.

[–]Gryphoneer 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"It doesn't matter if it's porn"

Haha BULLSHIT. These are professionals paid to fake orgasms!

[–]7hunderpants 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You do realise that James deen is 100% innocent right ?

An accusation is not evidence.

[+]ThePigmanAgain -20 points-19 points-18 points 10 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

Meh, too many claims for Deen to not be at the least a massive asshole. I'm taking the Lilly LeBeau one most seriously, as she has a witness.

[–]Claude-Lau 24 points25 points26 points 10 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

Meh, too many claims for Deen to not be at the least a massive asshole.

True. But if he has texts and emails of Stoya threatening to make a false rape claim if he broke up with her that's pretty damning.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

Does he have them, though? If he has, he should publish them.

[–]soalone34 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Did you read the article? Just because he's accused doesn't mean we can assume he's guilty. Stoya accused him of rape the day he moved in with his new girlfriend, one of the accusers said he forced anal onto her and she never worked with him again. Except none of the crew present corroborated her claims and she had done scenes with him after the supposed rape.

[+]ThePigmanAgain -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This has nothing to do with my question. Also, i did not assume he was guilty of anything other than being an asshole. Try to be relevant.

[–]MyAfricanChild 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

During Deen's interview I remember him stating that he would not retaliate in a character assassinating manner.

[+]ThePigmanAgain -7 points-6 points-5 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Oh, the old "I can prove you are lying but i don' wanna!" tactic. No, it is unlikely that someone who isn't retarded would be allowing himself to be slandered this way if he could prove she had threatened him.

[–]Endless_Summer 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Where's her evidence of rape, again?

[+]ThePigmanAgain -11 points-10 points-9 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Stop wasting my time, jackass. I did not claim she had evidence of rape.

[–]Endless_Summer 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Then she shouldn't be believed by anyone. I don't know who's more of a fucking retard, her or you.

[+]ThePigmanAgain -11 points-10 points-9 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

LOL

Third rate troll is third rate.

[–]Endless_Summer 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Eh you're giving yourself too much credit, I'd say you're worse.

[–]MyAfricanChild -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's not quite what he said, he stated in his interview

I’m not going to play whack-a-mole with every accusation and do to their reputations what they are trying to do to mine.

He does not simply allow himself to be slandered either, the entire point of his interview was to defend himself from the accusations. He finally notes in his interview that:

I want to remind people that I am not the subject of any lawsuits, I am not under criminal investigation, and at this moment I have no intention of filing defamation suits against false accusations.

This would suggest that independently of having or not having evidence he would would not take social/political action to slander/attack their reputations. But this does not mean that he would not provide the evidence necessary to prove him innocent in a court of law. So I think you are right when you say "I can prove you are lying but I don't wanna!", but clearly he isn't retarded and he isn't allowing himself to be slandered in such a way, so your point isn't really coherent, all things considered.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ever heard of the court of public opinion? He's being lynched in it right now -- if he has evidence of her threats it is in his interest to put it out there. Since he does not, i suspect he is either a moron or that he does not have said evidence.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Claims from women piling on exaggerated hysteria in a malicious attempt to destroy a reputation? Because a man's reputation is so trivial that no grievance is too petty to be turned into a nail in his coffin? Yeah, they deserve a massive asshole.

Oh but no, they're women, they can't have been anything but perfect angels. None of these relationships could have been mutually toxic. Because that's not a thing.

These women are simply a hive of stinging insects. They all attacked after the first sting. That's how malicious women operate. That is in fact women's primary defense mechanism: social aggression.

I've seen it used on enough of my family to thank god I'm gay.

[+]ThePigmanAgain -8 points-7 points-6 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Women, huh? What about the male director backing LaBeau's story?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn't exactly back it verbatim from anything I've read. And that makes sense since Kink's been covering their asses from the beginning since many of these "incidents" happened on their sets. But that's a different matter.

And I never said that some of the drones don't come out of the hive to attack after the initial sting, so to speak. I mean I hold no delusion that it is only women who come to the "defense" of other women in cases of social aggression, although there is a definite sense of a "sisterhood" mentality behind this explosive diarrhea of demonization being unleashed on Deen. It is definitely the women who release the attack pheromones.

My point, though, was more to do with the evident fact that most of these accusations I've read represent undeniably attention-whoring histrionics, and that they are offered as unsolicited character witnessing in a public "trial" with deadly serious implications for a man's reputation. "OH someone said this guy raped her? That makes sense, he's such an insensitive jerk. Just listen to what he did to me." Don't care, bitch, that doesn't mean he's a rapist. Pure "me too!" mentality; pure boring whataboutery.

Did we forget that when this whole thing began, Gaby Dunn said that she "happened to know" that the accusation was false? Or that his former assistant has said she repeatedly threatened false accusations? Why is the character assassination so one-sided here? If Deen can be treated as a violent criminal because he may have some antisocial tendencies, why can his accuser's absolutely psychopathic tendencies, to which multiple people have attested, not be brought up as well?

If there's anything I don't doubt about this, it's that they were a toxic couple. All evidence points to Stoya's behavior contributing to this, and generally being every bit as much an "asshole" as Deen is accused of being.

The kind of asshole that knows exactly the 139 characters she needs to tweet guaranteed to destroy another human being. And that would use that power to punish that human the instant he moves on from her.

No. All you cunts who think he deserves this because he should be more of a sensitive nice guy are just dominoes that Stoya set up a long time ago with a single cold, manipulative tactical calculation. Even if her lie is incontrovertibly revealed, she knows she's won.

[+]ThePigmanAgain -7 points-6 points-5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good Lord! You have got to stop drinking so much coffee!

[–]Ledbetter86 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah what about the man that supports her claim?!

[–]BreakRaven 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good thing being an asshole isn't illegal.

[–]CountVonVague -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the guy was made famous because some fangirls on tumblr wanted to see a pretty face, he only capitalized on that fame. and yeah, he sounds like a dbag too

[–]Rethgil -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh 'ThePigmanAgain'. Why are you always here trolling with your feminist rubbish? Have you really nothing better to do?

[–]ThePigmanAgain 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL

[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

But a career that took a decade to build

Yeah, lots of grueling hours at the office.

It's a fucking joke...and a fucking joke

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]vanel 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Completely agree, and honestly it seems nowadays it's even harder than it ever was for guys to make a name in the industry.

In the 80's-90's you would see a lot of the same guys working, and you probably knew some of their names, now the guys are basically nameless and sometimes almost faceless.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Peter North had to blow dudes and take it up the butt as Matt Ramsy before he made a name for himself. Can be tough as a male in that industry to make real money.

[–]Claude-Lau 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Heh.

[–]fullhalf -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

can a guy who was her boyfriend, has fucked her countless times before and has done 100s of sex scenes including rough ones rape a woman who has done 100s of sex scenes including rough ones? the lines are completely blurred here. the most he could've is fuck her in a way that she didn't like. she thinks she can use the current feminist dominated climate to just smear a man and get praise for it by everyone and get fame for it. fuck that shit.

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