~ archived since 2018 ~

Female Privilege.

5iveby5ive

November 26, 2015

99 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Female Privilege.
Author	5iveby5ive
Upvotes	99
Comments	71
Date	November 26, 2015 12:56 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3uadv1/female_privilege/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/female-privilege.966338 https://theredarchive.com/post/966338

Comments

[–]Machikachi6 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (65 children) | Copy Link

[–]192873982 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]RoboLegGaming 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]192873982 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

When women don't want to have children, they can have an abortion or give the child up for adoption. Men don't have these options.

That's true, but if they choose not to use these options, they are still legally financially liable. The privilege would be that they can abort unwanted children.

That means that a woman can always prevent any payment, by giving up her rights on the child. Men on the other hand are fucked, when they get a woman pregnant. Neither can they enforce an adoption, nor can they opt out of their responsibility.

Well, that's not completely true. Married fathers do have some rights over adoption. Fathers can also sign away their rights to give financial responsibility in many cases if the mother approves. I agree that mothers have more options, but when it comes down to it, when both mothers and fathers have children they don't want, they have to pay for those children if they keep the child, and the privilege really comes more down to how many options mothers have to get rid of unwanted children over how many options fathers have.

EDIT: I'd like to stress that if a father gets custody of the children, which can and does happen occasionally, mothers are responsible for child support.

[–]192873982 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

7 is still true.

When a person doesn't want children

	Men	Women
Can use contraceptives	Yes	Yes
When she gets raped, gets pregnant and kept the child	Pays	Gets money
When he gets raped and the gets pregnant and kept the hild	Pays	Gets money
When she manipulated condoms and she kept the child	Pays	Gets money
When he manipulated condoms and she kept the child	No rights on the child, pays	Gets money
When she lied about contraceptives	Pays	Gets money
Can have an emergency contraception	No, her choice	Yes
Can have an abortion	No, her choice	Yes
Knows when pregnant	Only if she tells him	Yes
Can give child up for adoption unilaterally	No	Yes, if she doesn't tell him she was pregnant

It's hardly fair. Of course there are women who have to support unwanted children, but only if she missed the date for abortion, told the father about the pregnancy, and he actually wanted to keep the child. Even in these cases the woman would most likely not have to pay at all.

I would be surprised if the women in the usa who are in this sitation is a four-digit number or higher.

[–]evange -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

	Men	Women
Can use contraceptives	Yes	Yes
When she gets raped, gets pregnant and kept the child	Goes to prison for rape, likely wont contribute anything financially or emotionally to the child, but rapist genes get passed on	Deals with emotional baggage of not only being raped, but raising the child of a rapist. Likely will receive no child support if rapist goes to prison, if rapist isn’t found guilty (burden of proof too high), he may request custody/force his way into their lives/make her life a living hell/use child to control her.
When he gets raped and the gets pregnant and kept the child	Will likely get custody if he asks for it	Goes to prison for rape, will lose custody of child.
When she manipulated condoms and she kept the child	If sex was consensual, can request equal custody if he so chooses	Works out custody arrangement with father
When he manipulated condoms and she becomes pregnant	Uses child as pawn to control woman. May or may not pay child support. May or may not contribute emotionally to child.	If she chooses to keep the child she’ll undergo 9 months of nausea and illness, painful delivery, and loss of income and status due to maternity leave. She’ll then have a relationship with the child’s father forced onto her for the rest of her life by virtue of him being the child of her father.
When she lied about contraceptives	Requests equal custody if he so chooses	Works out custody arrangement with father
When he lied about contraceptives (vasectomy, ability to pull out, wearing a condom)	May or may not pay child support. May or may not contribute emotionally to child. May or may not even be able to be tracked down.	If she chooses to keep the child she’ll undergo 9 months of nausea and illness, painful delivery, and loss of income and status due to maternity leave. She’ll then have a relationship with the child’s father forced onto her for the rest of her life by virtue of him being the child of her father. Or the father may disappear and never contribute anything financially or emotionally to the wellbeing of the child. He may not even know or care that the child exists.
When contraceptives fail and no one is at fault	“Lol, like I care. She doesn’t even have my real name or address.” or Accuses woman of lying, because contraception is overwhelmingly a “woman’s responsibility”	Becomes pregnant and is subjected to all the physical, emotional, and social ramifications for being pregnant. Deal with difficult moral questions about when life begins.
Assumes all physical risk to carry child to term	No.	Yes
Undergoes morning sickness, weight gain, painful delivery	No.	Yes
Bears all the societal “punishment” for having a child (loss of income and status due to mat leave, job stagnation due to prioritizing family)	No.	Yes
Can have an emergency contraception	No, but he can bully her into taking it	Yes, but she could be bullied into taking or not taking it, she could not have timely access to it, or could have no access to it. Then she’s the one who has to deal with the side effects.
Can have an abortion	No, but he can bully her into getting one	Yes, depending on where she lives, laws regarding abortion access and limits, how far along she is when she finds out she’d pregnant, and her moral beliefs on when life begins.
Knows when pregnant	Only if she tells him	Probably, although some women don’t realize they’re pregnant until they go into labour.
Can give child up for adoption unilaterally	Yes. Depending on state, child abandonment laws, safe haven laws, who has legal custody of children, and age of children.	Yes, if she doesn't tell him she was pregnant. Also depending on state, child abandonment laws, safe haven laws, who has legal custody of children, and age of children.

FTFY

[–]192873982 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]garglemesh42 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GoHoMoThrow 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mythandros 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]unpicked-username 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]GoHoMoThrow 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]GoHoMoThrow 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]eXeHijaKer 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]eXeHijaKer 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]5iveby5ive 10 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

"A " woman. Which the article even said "has never happened before..."

[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]5iveby5ive -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]192873982 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That's where you are wrong. Wanting children is not binary, you can want a child more or less.

A woman who is morally opposed to abortion choses the life of the children over abortion, which means she wants the children enough to not do an abortion.

If she doesn't want the child at all, she just wont be opposed to abortion, therefore she doesn't have to pay. If she doesn't really want the child, but not enough to have an abortion, she can just not tell the father and give her child up for adoption. If she doesn't have the option to not tell the father, and is opposed to abortion, she is in the same position the father is, except that she will most likely receive child support if she keeps the child and she will most likely not pay child support if the father keeps the child, because familiy courts are biased towards women.

So 7 applies most of the time but not always. Do you agree with that?

[–]atheist4thecause -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]192873982 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You may be technically accurate because of the way that #7 is worded. The point is that women have a choice and men don't.

It's pretty rare that a woman is morally opposed to abortion but not only has no moral issues with giving it away, she WANTS to give it away. And out of those situations, it's pretty uncommon for her not to be able to give it away (through adoption or giving the child up to the state) without needing to involve the father at all.

And out of those situations, it's rare for the father to insist on becoming a single parent, raise the child by himself, and demand child support from her. (And don't forget that when women are ordered to pay child support it's often a lower amount, with more lenience given if they can't/don't pay.)

How often does this situation happen, when you have a woman who genuinely doesn't want to have a child from the start, and she ends up paying child support for it? It's exceptionally rare, does it even happen once a year? Whenever it does happen, all of those women were given a choice to avoid this situation, and chose not to take it.

Compare this to men being forced into parenthood against their will. This happens really often, who knows how many thousands or tens of thousands of times per year. And not a single one of those men had any possible way to avoid being forced into legal parenthood, other than to never have sex. (Which, because rape exists, is not even something that all men can choose. How disgusting is it that RAPE is no exception for forced legal parenthood.)

[–]Arby01 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And out of those situations, it's rare for the father to insist on becoming a single parent, raise the child by himself, and demand child support from her.

Actually, I would be interested to know: Out of the number of times a woman faced that situation, what percentage did an about face and kept the child instead of letting the father have custody.

I suspect that is the reality - this doesn't happen because when faced with "I can't completely be let off the hook", the option "I keep the child and have the say" is way stronger.

Now if we had legal parental surrender, where the mother could allow the father to choose to keep the child and would sign away all rights (that is, I am giving the child up for adoption, the father has first right to adopt), we might see this sort of situation more often.

Which leads me to an immediate question that I have never considered before, why doesn't the father have first right to adopt?

[–]chocoboat 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhiteThrone 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause0 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause0 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I find it funny that you try to prove modern day welfare is a program for women by pointing to the woman's right to vote from nearly 100 years ago.

Also, although I'm an MRA, I don't just look at something and look to see if it helps or harms men. I look at how it fits into the overall society as well. You do more what feminists do for women, but you do it for men, and you only look at the direct impact on men. The reason I don't agree with that is because I don't just want something to benefit men, I want it to be good for society, because if something is bad for society overall then it's going to be bad for men in the long run.

I'd also like to note that it's fallacious to state that I'm not a true MRA just because we have some differences on a few issues. That's a like a Catholic telling a Lutheran they aren't a true Christian.

And while I do go by the Liberal label from time to time because I feel it's closest to me, I mainly go by the Centrist label. These labels all have different meanings to different people so I don't really like to go by these labels, but Centrism means that I'm willing to take on issues by an issue-by-issue basis and take different approaches to different issues. I might have a Progressive idea on one issue, a Liberal idea on another, a Conservative idea on another, etc., and unlike a moderate, I'm willing to be extreme on some issues. If you add all my ideas together, I'm going to end up slightly Left and Liberal.

EDIT: You shouldn't be so proud to be blind to nuances.

[–]Demonspawn2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause0 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Alkomb[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]5iveby5ive 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

But delinquent mothers never go to jail.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2209&dat=19810401&id=j6grAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Bv0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=4944,229703&hl=en

Why is it that so many people here are exaggerating points that actually fit within the MRM to the point where they claim is untrue? I just don't get it. If the truth is on our side, why do we need to exaggerate? Lets leave that to the Feminists with their false rape statistics.

Much, much smaller than mothers ordered to pay child support.

Well, of course. Fathers end up with the children less often so fathers have to pay child support more often. Child support is not actually sex-dependent, though, and that's what I'm getting at. It's not even interpreted in a way that is unfair to fathers (not that I've ever heard from other MRA's anyways and if it is I'd like to see the evidence on that).

There are some issues with child support. For instance, the parent paying should not have to pay an unlimited amount based on income. It should be capped at some point, or the amount should be much more regressive. Sending parents to jail, both fathers and mothers, is idiotic as well.

There is also an issue with options for men compared to options for women with giving up parental rights.

These are winning arguments for the Men's Rights Movement, so the worst thing we can do is exaggerate to the point that our claims our no longer true.

[–]Arby01 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]5iveby5ive 10 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

No, you're missing the point. Women who are ordered to pay child support but don't are extremely higher than men. And the women are extremely less likely to se consequences and repercussions from it as well. Not only that, did you read the article you posted? Lol

[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

79.6% of custodial mothers receive a support award
29.9% of custodial fathers receive a support award.
46.9% of non-custodial mothers totally default on support.
26.9% of non-custodial fathers totally default on support.
20.0% of non-custodial mothers pay support at some level
61.0% of non-custodial fathers pay support at some level
66.2% of single custodial mothers work less than full time.
10.2% of single custodial fathers work less than full time.
7.0% of single custodial mothers work more than 44 hours weekly.
24.5% of single custodial fathers work more that 44 hours weekly.
46.2% of single custodial mothers receive public assistance.
20.8% of single custodial fathers receive public assistance.

[Technical Analysis Paper No. 42 - U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services - Office of Income Security Policy]

[–]Arby01 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Demonspawn 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Alkomb[🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]evange 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Alkomb[🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Alkomb[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]VSillars 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes, all of those things are true. If you think any of them are inaccurate, I'd like to know your reasons for thinking that.

Of course a few are debatable, for instance the TV one... there are clearly some admirable male characters on television. But you have to admit that the bumbling, clueless, fat dad is a pretty common thing to see. In the 50s there were some admirable female characters but also a fair amount of simpleminded housewives who can't get anything right (cleaning up and making coffee right is so HARD!)... women certainly had valid cause for complaint about those.

But most are simply factual statements about things that women can do but men can't.

Men can't file for divorce and expect to get custody or child support. Men are seen as less important than women and children, and men have no way to opt out of parenthood other than never having sex. These are just true things that apply to men and not to women.

17 is wrong though and 16 is just hateful. 18 is one of the most important ones though... it's a very widespread mindset that men don't face any discrimination and that it only happens to women. Seems like you might have that mindset too.

[–]Grandmafelloutofbed 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]VSillars 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tystue0 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link