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Women 'more upset by emotional betrayal than sexual infidelity'... but for men it is the exact opposite

Imnotmrabut

October 9, 2015
54 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3265751/Women-upset-emotional-betrayal-sexual-infidelity-men-exact-opposite.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline
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Post Information
Title Women 'more upset by emotional betrayal than sexual infidelity'... but for men it is the exact opposite
Author

Imnotmrabut

Upvotes 54
Comments 28
Date October 9, 2015 9:19 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3o2xe1/women_more_upset_by_emotional_betrayal_than/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/women-more-upset-by-emotional-betrayal-than-sexual.969728
https://theredarchive.com/post/969728
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Comments

[–]girlwriteswhat 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Long term cooperative mating strategies (which represent only one of many mating strategies) between men and women tend to involve the man offering practical support (resources, time, effort, protection) in return for reproductive opportunities, and women offering reproductive opportunities in return for practical support.

Sexual infidelity on the part of the female partner means the man is possibly losing the reproductive opportunities he's trading his practical support for. More than this, he may end up investing a great deal of time, energy, resources and protection in children that are not his genetic progeny. This is a double betrayal: firstly, he may end up a genetic dead end (didn't get what he was "paying" for, which can also occur due to infertility or a wife who refuses to have sex, or whatever), and secondly he may end up paying for someone else's reproductive opportunities (he's paying for a rival man's genetic success).

Emotional infidelity on the part of the male partner means the woman may lose the practical support she's trading her reproductive capability for. He might leave her, or spend some of his finite resources on her [the mistress], resources that should be hers, as per their bargain.

Of course, none of these instincts take into account relatively recent changes in how society assigns responsibility to parents.

The woman today may have just as much reason to be upset at the sexual infidelity of her male partner, as he can be held financially accountable for any offspring born of that sexual infidelity (which means she will, of necessity, be receiving less practical support from him). In the distant past, a man's financial responsibility for any bastard children was largely voluntary. Now it is not. She may have less real cause to fear emotional infidelity on the part of her man, as the penalties when he follows those emotions out of this relationship and into another are quite extreme--alimony, child support, "I want half!" He's less likely to leave his marriage because he's "in love" with someone else, and if he does, she will still maintain a portion of what she was paying for.

Of course, men still have just as much cause to be upset by sexual infidelity as they ever did, given that married men are still typically held financially responsible for children born into the marriage, even when they can prove those children aren't theirs. But now, they should also fear emotional infidelity, because no-fault divorce means a woman can act on that emotional infidelity by leaving her current husband while keeping a portion of his practical support (in terms of divorce settlements, alimony and child support).

These fears, given that they seem to be adapted to our past environment but not our current one, are a great argument for sex differences in innate psychological predispositions.

Edited for clarity

[–]xNOM 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Can be measured physiologically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m951x1-nbNs#t=27m30s

Also, a large number of sexual partners is regarded across almost all cultures much more as a negative female trait than a male one.

The woman today may have just as much reason to be upset at the sexual infidelity of her male partner, as he can be held financially accountable for any offspring born of that sexual infidelity

If this were that common, alimony would be history by now, IMO. Women are upset by the sex part of sexual infidelity only to the extent that women choose partners based on their sexual appeal. This clearly isn't the case. Western women choose husbands primarily based on their ability to be a father. Both to potential children and to themselves. Sexual attraction is almost never the primary consideration. Nothing else really explains the spousal age gap, reluctance to marry down in income and education, and the high sexual dysfunction rates of married women. This is the crisis in femininity. Even though housework now takes no more than two hours per day and they are now more educated and have the same earnings potential as men, about 80% of women cannot be dragged out of the house completely. Most of them somehow prefer to spend a significant part of their time in the old low stress world of hypoagency and infraresponsibility. The female sexual drive is suffering from a failure to launch.

EDIT: The teachers screwing around with underage boys epidemic is a symptom of this, IMO.

[–]ABC_Florida 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

The biological explanation is point on for me.

Can anyone tell me how it works in Canada/US? If my wife gives birth to her lover's child, what are my chances divorcing her and not paying child support for the child who is not mine? Do I really have to pay child support for that child till she/he reaches 18?

[–]my_name_is_gato 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Attorney familiar with this. You would not be required to pay support if you divorced her and addressed the paternity issue promptly.

[–]ABC_Florida 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks Gato!

[–]192873982 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

If we look at nature, men want to generate offspring. The amount of offspring a man can produce is reduced by sexual infidelity of his woman.

The woman on the other hand is not influenced in her ability to generate offspring, if the man cheats sexually. The woman is therefore interested in the wellbeing of her offspring and herself, to increase the number of her children that make it to adulthood. A man betraying her on an emotional level is a man that cares about her less, decreasing hers and her offsprings chance of surviving a certain amount of time.

[+]SlimThugga -10 points-9 points-8 points 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

If we look at nature

I've never heard anyone say anything smart when beginning their argument with that expression.

[–]192873982 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

So this is the first time, or did I say nothing smart?

If it's the latter, please tell me where I am wrong.

[–]SlimThugga -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

You're using a hindsight bias driven explanation on what is a rather shoddy social study to begin with. Even if the study were 100% true and accurate, "animals do it" is still not automatically the best explanation for why it is so. We are not animals, we do a LOT of things different than them, so saying "just look at nature, that's totally why we do it too" is really...well...not smart.

And...I don't know. Personally speaking, am I really the only dude offended here? If you don't want to have kids, and your girlfriend goes and sucks another dude's dick, how can you say you're mad because your reproductive chances have lessened? Again, we are not like animals. Reproductive strategies and bonding (if any) varies even from animal to animal.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

I won't downvote you, but you are very much incorrect here.

We are not animals

We absolutely are animals. We just happen to be highly intelligent animals.

But our instincts come from an age when we didnt have reddit, or cars, or even architecture. It comes from an age when "fire" was a new invention. And this is why a cuckolded man us more unable to forgive his cheating wife - because he is then at risk of the worst possible fate, from a genetic standpoint: gene-death

[–]snarkymcthrowaway 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We absolutely are animals.

Yep. Just look at chimps and you get a pretty good idea of why human mating is as fucked up as it is.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lol, yep

[–]SlimThugga -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Way to completely ignore my point in favor of semantics.

We absolutely are animals. We just happen to be highly intelligent animals.

We are animals, as part of the biological category. But, as I said, we do way too many things differently for the "we're just like animals" argument to work the way you want it to work.

And this is why a cuckolded man us more unable to forgive his cheating wife

Err...what? Cuckolding, by definition, means that a MAN is aware of their spouse cheating on them, and not doing anything about it.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No need to get upset, buddy. I'm not attacking you.

We are animals, as part of the biological category. But, as I said, we do way too many things differently for the "we're just like animals" argument to work the way you want it to work.

Fair enough. I should have made it clear that I did not misunderstand your point. Anyway, the problem with the "we're not like animals" argument is that it ignores so many species in which we are very, very similar. Chimpanzees and Bonobos, for example, both exhibit sexual practices that are remarkably similar to humans in many ways.

Still, though, this is not the point I am trying to make. The point I wanted to make was about why men cant forgive infidelity as easily as women. And that reason is found in my paragraph about cuckoldry (btw, cuckoldry as a sexual fetish does involve the male's knowledge. But you can be cuckolded without knowledge too; most people just call it "cheating" though).

Anyway, now that we've got the definitions stuff out of the way is there any part of my previous response you disagree with?

[–]SlimThugga -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Anyway, now that we've got the definitions stuff out of the way is there any part of my previous response you disagree with?

Uh. Yeah. I told you what's wrong with your response, and you gave me a reply full of backpedalling about what you meant or didn't mean with your retarded definitions. As if I'm in the wrong for not automatically knowing you got your definition of "cuckold" from 4chan, or something.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can see you're incapable of a reasoned or mature conversation.

Goodbye.

[–]iandmlne 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

We are most definitely animals, and in our base state, without the accumulated knowledge afforded us through technological advancement of civilization, we would be rendered feral within a a few short generations.

Studies of other primate species, although different in some capacities, are the most ethical sources of human instinctual behavior available to us currently.

[–]SlimThugga -4 points-3 points-2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Dude, fuck, lol. You sound like a redpiller. Not even gonna check posting history. No one loves the "we're just like animals" argument more than they do. "Women are the submissive weak sex who want to fuck the alpha male with the best genes. Just look at animals!"

Studies of other primate species, although different in some capacities, are the most ethical sources of human instinctual behavior available to us currently.

yes...except in cases in which it IS perfectly ethical to test humans, like in this very study we're talking about here, which should be treated as stand-alone, not as a comparison point to observations of animals.

[–]ABC_Florida 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think it is harder for a single mom to find a male?

[–]iandmlne -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

You are willingly blind to reality, that's fine, and "redpiller" isn't really an insult..

[–]192873982 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I do agree that nature is not always the best explanation.

Some people argue that homosexuality is natural/not natural (denpending on who you ask), by refering to other species. That is most definitely a bad argument, because we are not other species, and while homosexuality exists in some species, it does not exist in all. That means that comparing us to other animals is completely arbitrary, because there's always another species of animal that disproves the assumption

However, my argumentation is not based on comparison to other species, but I refer to the mechanics of evolution. The most successfull genes succeed in evolution and the genes influence our behaviour. Because having as much offspring as possible is by definition the most successfull behaviour (in the context of evolution), all animals have developed instincts to ensure more offspring. I suggested that condemning sexual betrayal is the most successful strategy for men to pass on their genes and condemning emotional betrayal is the most successful strategy for women.

I'm not looking as some peace of nature and just say "look at that, we are the same", but instead I point out the mechanics of evolution that would explain the behaviour, observed in the human species.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And in other "no-shit news"...

Evo Psych explains that this is genetics 101:

  • A woman's ability to successfully procreate involves not just copulation, but monopolization of the man's resources (protection, provision, etc) so that her offspring can survive and procreate also.
  • A man's ability to successfully procreate (especially in the confines of a monogamous relationship) involves monopolization of the woman's sexual availability.

So if a man goes to a prostitute to cheat on his wife, or if it was just a hook-up, he is not dividing his resources (aside from a few dollars). He is not endangering her ability to pass on her genes. But a woman that cheats absolutely is endangering that ability for her man.

This is why women can forgive infidelity more often than men.

[–]JayBopara 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This when is this new news? This has been studied and known for decades.

[–]HaberdasherFetishist 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Professor Bendixen said: 'Jealousy is learned, but we feel confident that these reactions are mechanisms that are part of an evolved human mind, given comparable findings across several nations.'

Wait, what?

[–]SlimThugga 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Wha? But how is it possible to sexually betray someone without also betraying them emotionally and viceversa? The way they asked the question is pretty weird and it makes it sound like sexual and emotional betrayal can be separate.

Any link to the study?

[–]Imnotmrabut[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mons_Bendixen

[–]InsanityRoach 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

While generally they go hand in hand, you can have an one night stand, or go to a prostitute, for example.

[–]masterofthehaus -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Could also be a social factor to it; like there's definitely a social belief that men will cheat (don't know how true it is, but it is a perception), so maybe women sort of think that at some point they might come up agains that and are less upset about it compared to emotional cheating?

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