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German Hospital Has Interesting Approach to Circumcision

Spoonwood

July 23, 2015
45 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/79291-150722-german-hospital-tries-to-prevent-circumcisions
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Post Information
Title German Hospital Has Interesting Approach to Circumcision
Author

Spoonwood

Upvotes 45
Comments 15
Date July 23, 2015 12:01 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3e9gri/german_hospital_has_interesting_approach_to/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/german-hospital-has-interesting-approach-to.974850
https://theredarchive.com/post/974850
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Comments

[–]Sanguifer 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Germany is a minefield for Intactivists.

Any effort to stop this barbaric practice will be swiftly met with accusations of antisemitism, and antisemitism is the #1 sin here. The scars left by the Third Reich run deep.

[–]walkonthebeach 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

True. But it an angry and growing movement, and there are many ways to fight the evils of MGM.

Of course it's ironic that MGM singles-out Jewish boys especially for genital mutilation! Dr Mengele is laughing in his grave.

[–]pillepallepulle 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't have that feeling at all. Being against circumcision is the mainstream point of view on this matter in Germany, as far as i can tell. Nobody I know is circumcised and most people consider it a cruel and unnecessary practice. It's just jewish hardliners that play the antisemitism card in this discussion, but they do that with every discussion that even remotely relates to their religion, so they are not taken serious. It is more an issue of religious freedom versus bodily integrity, which both are basic human rights guaranteed by the Grundgesetz. I also was disappointed by the Bundestag's decision to reenable circumcision for religious reasons, but I guess it was obviously the path of least resistence, since non-muslim and non-jewish germans don't get their sons circumcised anyway and therefore don't care as much about the issue, the government could only win sympathy by "protecting the religious freedom". It's spineless, but that is politics for you. All in all i am pretty proud of my countries view on MGM, especially because the medical professionals condemn it, which is the most important thing for the eventual complete ban of circumcision. Hospitals like the one mentioned are already doing a great job of discouraging circumcision even in religious families, as the article shows.

[–]chocoboat 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I can't wait to see progressive countries finally start to ban this barbaric ritual body modification. When it starts happening elsewhere, it should be only be a decade or so before the US catches up, like with the issue of gay marriage...

[–]CynicCorvus 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

starting to think you are selling yourself short i mean you beat us aussies to the punch when it came to gay marriage.....i ,mean even tho out PM knows the public wants it for the most part he wont ven put it up for a vote.

[–]chocoboat 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well to be fair we have been getting more liberal since Bush, and meanwhile Australia's government has taken a turn towards the right, so that's only to be expected.

[–]Sanguifer 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't mean to imply that germany is particularly bad when it comes to circumcision, but I can see how it could be seen as such. However, when it comes to legal change, it's been an uphill battle - the combination of "circumcision is not a big deal" and fear of being labled as antisemite is hard to overcome.

[–]thedarkerside 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Considering that the courts seem to have a different idea the outcry will be short lived.

If anything, I tink Germany could quite well break new ground there. There are a lot of motivated people in Germany and the Supreme Court in general seems to put a high value on the individual and limit institutionatl power.

[–]MisterMysterios 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I see more a different thing. In this modern days of the last years, if you play the antisemitism or Nazi-card without a proper reason, just anger will come from germans. We are so sick of all these accusions that there is no better way to get a stampage of angry germans when you call one of them a Nazi without enough proove that he is one (and that the germans agree with you on that point)

[–]Sanguifer 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Socially, yeah, and thank goodness for that. But politically, the accusation of racism in general and antisemitism in particular still holds a lot of power.

[–]MisterMysterios 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, depends on the context. You see how the reactions of the accusions against Schäuble. The anger rised with each mentioning of him being a Nazi.

But I agree, when this accusion comes from inside of germany and is not from someone fron the Party "Die Linke" or maybe from some parts of the "Grünen", it is still pretty strong.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Asked if the hospital would try to deter religious families from circumcising their children, Kalhöfer told The Post: “We respect the religious grounds of families asking for circumcision, and we don’t actively want to persuade them to desist.

Why don't they just say that they allow religious people to enforce their beliefs onto others? That's what it is. There's no telling if that child will even keep their parents religion. So that's such a stupid reason to let them mutilate a child's genitals forever.

It's basically valuing religious beliefs, a choice, over the human rights of a child. A male child. If that kid is still religious or wants it at 18, go for it. Otherwise, we shouldn't force it.

Anyway, at least they're trying something at all. So that's nice.

[–]mikesteane 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a good start. But since they clearly think that circumcision cannot be justified on medical grounds, they should also ask themselves the question of whether the view "We respect the religious grounds of families asking for FEMALE circumcision, and we don’t actively want to persuade them to desist" are also justified. If not, they should also acknowledge that their stance on male circumcision does not go far enough.

[–]MisterMysterios 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They do not say that circumcision is not justified on medical grounds, for example in case of a phimosis.

“Our surgeons are arguing from a medical standpoint according to the new medical guidelines of the German Society of Pediatric Surgeons, who recommend to perform circumcision only for medical reasons,” he said

The thing that they do oppose are ritual circumcisions of males under one year. If they are older, they will do it.

I, for my part, can't agree with that. A boy should decide himself if he want to cut off this part of himself when he is old enough to choose his religion. In germany, the age of religious maturity is 14. therefore there are a lot of voices that demand that this should be the date when ritual circumcisions should be allowed.

[–]mikesteane 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I stand corrected, I should have said "routine" circumcision to exclude special cases.

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