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Mattress Girl Lawsuit: Can Paul Nungesser Beat Columbia in Court? Experts Weigh In "His time at college and future have been shattered"

blueoak9

May 4, 2015
151 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://reason.com/blog/2015/04/30/mattress-girl-lawsuit-can-paul-nungesser#.0qlyux:VkKQ
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Title Mattress Girl Lawsuit: Can Paul Nungesser Beat Columbia in Court? Experts Weigh In "His time at college and future have been shattered"
Author

blueoak9

Upvotes 151
Comments 32
Date May 4, 2015 4:27 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/34u7be/mattress_girl_lawsuit_can_paul_nungesser_beat/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mattress-girl-lawsuit-can-paul-nungesser-beat.981195
https://theredarchive.com/post/981195
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Comments

[–]leftajar 23 points24 points25 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The long and the short of it, is that she received course credit for what amounts to slander.

That is a tacit endorsement of her behavior, and the university should be liable. I don't know if Title IX is the right way to pursue that; is "accessory to slander" a thing?

[–]intensely_human 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I'm not a lawyer but title ix seems like the wrong angle. Yes they treated him unfairly and there's a case there, but it's not possible to prove they did it because of his gender.

[–]blueoak9[S] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is a tacit endorsement of her behavior

Not so tacit. That's pretty explicit endorsement.

[–]samsc2 42 points43 points44 points 11 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Every time I see stuff about this case it just makes me more and more angry. The thought that he actually has to fight hard to win it is blood boiling but what's worse is that feminists still push this psycho woman up as a victim or activist.

[–]blueoak9[S] 29 points30 points31 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

what's worse is that feminists still push this psycho woman up as a victim or activist.

Actually it's very good that they are doing that. After the UVA hoax blew up, if this gets wider attention it will break the back of their attempts to keep these witch hunts going.

This could finally doom the Dear Colleague letter.

[–]dungone 24 points25 points26 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I doubt that it will. It's becoming quite clear to me that men require a much higher evidentiary standard to succeed in a Title IX complaint than women do, both in the eyes of the law as well as the public. People simply scoff at the idea that a man can be discriminated against because of his gender, even if all the evidence of it is there.

[–]blueoak9[S] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That's all true, but this is less about specific cases and more about the general perception of how valid these outlandish claims about rape are.

Hey, do you still have the same email address you had when you were looking at submitting an article to Genderratic?

[–]dungone 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep I still have the same email. Let's catch up.

[–]blueoak9[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Will do.

[–]RunawayGrain 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually it's very good that they are doing that. After the UVA hoax blew up, if this gets wider attention it will break the back of their attempts to keep these witch hunts going.

The hallmark of stupidity is that it keeps pushing forward despite all evidence to the contrary.

[–]Tedesche 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I, for one, agree with you on this. I'm all too happy for this case getting national media attention, even if they guy loses. In fact, it's almost better if he does, as it will highlight how discriminatory the Title IX standards have become. My fear is that the litigation will take so long that the media loses interest, and it will pass by without much public attention.

[–]Ransal 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Is she still claiming rape? Not sure how she can live knowing the damage she's doing to innocent people... oh wait, she thinks men are ants and deserve being stepped on for fun.

[–]samsc2 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think now she's claiming artistic expression(?wtf?) as her get out of jail card for all the slander and damage she caused.

[–]Ransal 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

pretty soon she'll start saying she's triggered by the people calling her a horrible human being.

[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

The thought that he actually has to fight hard to win it is blood boiling

just for the record this is exactly how feminists feel when a woman who actually has been raped has to fight tooth and nail to win.

Really does show how similar the whole ordeal is

[–]samsc2 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Yes completely true, a person who claimed a guy raped her but was then caught in numerous forms lying about it but was still able to destroy the guys life is the same as a person who claims rape but then has to actually provide some sort of proof of said rape so innocent people aren't targeted.

Oh wait....

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Oh goddamn seriously?

I'm trying to show that a false rape accusation is just as bad as rape in terms of the legal process

[–]samsc2 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

but it's not though. In almost every single aspect of our current system the legal process for a rape victim is expedited and in most cases prosecuted with little to no evidence. In almost every single aspect a false rape victim is essentially guaranteed jail time unless they somehow magically got the accuser on video/tape/social media/email etc... actually admitting to the fact that it's a false rape.

These things are not even close to being equal in terms of the legal process which is why they are so often talked about.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Talked about here.

There are plenty of stories where women have desperately tried and failed to convict their rapist to no avail as well.

It depends on the state

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Good. You should have to fight tooth and nail to convict someone of something that's hard to prove. If it's easy then the justice system is broken. That might sound harsh, but the other option is to have a scenario where people can destroy each other just by saying so.

A more apt comparison would be to compare a woman trying to get her rapist convicted to a man trying to get his false accuser convicted, which is nigh on impossible even if undoubtable evidence exists.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I understand that.

Now can we agree that it's really shitty for the rape victim? That's literally all I'm saying.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, it's shitty for everyone.

[–]samsc2 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What is worse? Failing to convict a criminal or convicting someone who's innocent? All standard people will say it's always worse to convict someone who's innocent however the way our system is setup it's just "fuck em all" when it comes to rape issues(only against men, women almost NEVER go to jail/get convicted of rape). This is basically the main reason this subreddit is so good, so it can help bring to light all these issues.

[–]IronJohnMRA 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Columbia didn't railroad him because he's a man"

Naturally. Because they put female students through these sexual assault tribunals as well.

[–]Timotheusss 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Perhaps the university shouldn't be giving her course credit for doing so"

You what now

[–]Svri 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Nor does Columbia have the power to force Sulkowicz to stop telling the world that he's a rapist.

I hate this wording.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They do actually: They have the power to expel students for saying all kinds of things.

[–]Rev_Up_Those_Reposts 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's the thing, though. In the public court of opinion, it's up to the accused to prove they are not guilty. Everyone thinks they know everything about a case because of the internet, but they are rarely being exposed to both sides or seeing all the evidence.

[–]apullin 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Has any major private US university lost a damages case where the contention was over their positive harm (doing wrong), rather than just their negative harm (negligence)?

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]6Brix 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As a n00b to US law etc, can someone outline why Paul can't go after Emma directly for slander etc?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He can, but unless she inherited a shit load of money in college then it's doubtful she has any major assets. I'm sure he'd love to still sue her for the principal of it just to clear his name, but lawyers only take cases on contingency if there's a chance for a big payday. The lawyer wouldn't get enough money out of the judgement to cover the cost of the trial. So realistically the only way to sue a non wealthy individual is to have a shit load of money yourself so you can pay a lawyer out of pocket. He could win a several million dollar judgment against her, but it's meaningless if she has no money to actually pay it.

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