Selective Service & The Draft Is The Draft Coming Back The Obama Admin Liz Trotta Commentary

[–]xynomaster 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]regents -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]xynomaster 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree. The problem is, I wonder how many of the ~50% of women who think they should be exempt from selective service would say they support gender equality if pressed.

The most dangerous bit is the women who feel that they are somehow special and deserve to be exempt from the draft, who would also support it for men because it makes them feel safe and it doesn't really effect them. Or even the women who disagree in principle but would vote in favor of keeping it as is anyway because self-centered concern overcomes moral principle. I think that if a majority of women do not support signing up for the draft, the only way it will happen is through a court case.

Hopefully I'm wrong. I think a lot of younger men are starting to get fed up with the double standard. But that may not be enough.

[–]jtaylor73003[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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No most of Congress is men. How old is old to you? Now cite a source that most are that age. You now sound like a Feminist. Men require men to sign up for selective service because men hate women, and of course the patriarchy hurts men too. Bullshit. The reason men are only require to sign up because no one cares to change the status quo. If you notice most comments against women signing up is well the Selective Service doesn't really do anything, or there is no harm to men who don't sign up. That is completely False. First failure to sign up is a felony which car carry up to 5 years in prison and 250,000 fine plus removal of right to vote. Second failure to sign up can cause a lost in other privileges according to state, like driving. Finally failure to sign up disqualifies, automatically, you for any government funds or training.

People do know these things and don't seems to care. People both men and women. Stop being a sexist.

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[–]utmostgentleman 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (72 children) | Copy Link

Power of the Draft can be wielded by the President, and doesn't have to be a war either

[citation needed]

The draft has historically been an act of Congress.

Edit: Just to be clear, I was talking about conscription not registration with selective service. I don't know who you are, friend, but you really need to develop a better understanding of how the political process works in the US if you're going to hold forth on issues like conscription and urging people to just go out of vote Independant. Maybe you're young or young at heart but being passionate about an issue doesn't automatically mean you're well informed or effective in addressing that issue.

Also, you seem to randomly capitalize words. I imagine that's for emphasis but there are better visual devices that are more in line with the written word.

[–]jtaylor73003[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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Assignment of armed forces personnel The total number of armed forces personnel assigned to the Selective Service System under subsection (b)(2) at any time may not be less than the number of such personnel determined by the Director of Selective Service to be necessary, but not to exceed 745 persons, except that the President may assign additional armed forces personnel to the Selective Service System during a time of war or a national emergency declared by Congress or the President.

Sec. 454. Persons liable for training and service (a) Age limits; training in National Security Training Corps; physical and mental fitness; adequate training facilities; assignment to stations and units; training period; medical specialist categories Except as otherwise provided in this title (sections 451 to 471a of this Appendix),every person required to register pursuant to section 3 of this title (section 453 of this Appendix) who is between the ages of eighteen years and six months and twenty-six years, at the time fixed for his registration, or who attains the age of eighteen years and six months after having been required to register pursuant to section 3 of this title (section 453 of this Appendix), or who is otherwise liable as provided in section 6(h) of this title (section 456(h) of this Appendix), shall be liable for training and service in the Armed Forces of the United States: Provided, That each registrant shall be immediately liable for classification and examination, and shall, as soon as practicable following his registration, be so classified and examined, both physically and mentally, in order to determine his availability for induction for training and service in the Armed Forces: Provided further, That, notwithstanding any other provision of law, any registrant who has failed or refused to report for induction shall continue to remain liable for induction and when available shall be immediately inducted. The President is authorized, from time to time, whether or not a state of war exists, to select and induct into the Armed Forces of the United States for training and service in the manner provided in this title (said sections) (including but not limited to selection and induction by age group or age groups) such number of persons as may be required to provide and maintain the strength of the Armed Forces.

[–]jtaylor73003[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (64 children) | Copy Link

[–]utmostgentleman1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

/facepalm

Selective Service is like a phone book. It's a directory providing information on who may be of use in conscription. It isn't "the first step" in conscription which should be obvious when you consider that conscription in earlier wars used no such pre-existing directory. The first step of conscription is an act of congress and while it is possible that a bill could be passed reinstating conscription, the reality of the political process in the US makes that possibility vanishingly small with the exception of the most dire emergency.

Regarding my impression that you are young I will admit that is simply an impression based on how poorly you seem to grasp the reality of how things actually work. For example, one can say that conscription is simply a matter of congress passing a law and the president signing it but that completely ignores the political realities surrounding an issue like conscription of the actual operation of our political system.

Finally, to say that you seem young because your arguments are naive isn't an ad hominum. An ad hominum would be to say that your arguments are invalid because you're young. To be clear, I'm not saying that you're arguments are invalid because you are young, only that you are staggeringly naive.

[–]jtaylor730031 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

every person required to register pursuant to section 3 of this title (section 453 of this Appendix) who is between the ages of eighteen years and six months and twenty-six years, at the time fixed for his registration, or who attains the age of eighteen years and six months after having been required to register pursuant to section 3 of this title (section 453 of this Appendix), or who is otherwise liable as provided in section 6(h) of this title (section 456(h) of this Appendix), shall be liable for training and service in the Armed Forces of the United States: Provided, That each registrant shall be immediately liable for classification and examination, and shall, as soon as practicable following his registration, be so classified and examined, both physically and mentally, in order to determine his availability for induction for training and service in the Armed Forces: Provided further, That, notwithstanding any other provision of law, any registrant who has failed or refused to report for induction shall continue to remain liable for induction and when available shall be immediately inducted. The President is authorized, from time to time, whether or not a state of war exists, to select and induct into the Armed Forces of the United States for training and service in the manner provided in this title (said sections) (including but not limited to selection and induction by age group or age groups) such number of persons as may be required to provide and maintain the strength of the Armed Forces. At such time as the period of active service in the Armed

Funny you don't seem to grasp that if it is written into law it can be used, but go ahead tell me again how things work. Actually to say I seem young to call my ideas naïve is ad hominem is to invalidate my arguments without challenging the argument. Again calling me young or naïve doesn't address why my ideas would be wrong. If you think I am wrong state why and give out your opinion or evidence to support your reasoning.

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I don't know. Maybe he'll show up at your house and have sex with your significant other while simultaneously pouring sugar in your gas tank as the Secret Service forces you to watch.

I think I'm done talking to you. You seem oblivious to the fact that outside a very small audience your histrionic approach to discussing what are, in reality, minor inequalities actually detract from your ability to sway people to your position. But go ahead and continue frothing at the mouth about how the president could conscript men to die on a whim or how he's murdering children. By all means, speculate on what crimes against humanity that monster is ready to perpetrate on the people of the world. There is no way people are going to roll their eyes and write you off as tinfoil hat / black helicopter crazy.

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[–]utmostgentleman1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You seem childish because your grasp on the realities of the political process is naive. You come across as a crazy conspiracy theorist based on your histrionic approach to what is honestly a relatively minor issue. While we both agree that it should be corrected i.e. men and women treated equally with respect to selective service registration, if you talk about this issue to anyone else the way you've discussed it here with me you'll simply be ignored as an angry crackpot.

I think the men's rights movement make a lot of good points and raise issues that should be discussed and addressed but, unfortunately, it has people like you that play right into the angry/crazy/disaffected loser stereotype which allows men's issues to be dismissed out of hand.

Factually correct or not, you will never be listened to by the people you most need to reach because you cannot distance yourself from the issues enough to discuss them with calm rationality.

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[–]jtaylor730031 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your delusions are what the issue is here Stalker. In plain English inside the bill itself, yet I will repeat myself again.

Sec. 454. Persons liable for training and service (a) Age limits; training in National Security Training Corps; physical and mental fitness; adequate training facilities; assignment to stations and units; training period; medical specialist categories Except as otherwise provided in this title (sections 451 to 471a of this Appendix),every person required to register pursuant to section 3 of this title (section 453 of this Appendix) who is between the ages of eighteen years and six months and twenty-six years, at the time fixed for his registration, or who attains the age of eighteen years and six months after having been required to register pursuant to section 3 of this title (section 453 of this Appendix), or who is otherwise liable as provided in section 6(h) of this title (section 456(h) of this Appendix), shall be liable for training and service in the Armed Forces of the United States: Provided, That each registrant shall be immediately liable for classification and examination, and shall, as soon as practicable following his registration, be so classified and examined, both physically and mentally, in order to determine his availability for induction for training and service in the Armed Forces: Provided further, That, notwithstanding any other provision of law, any registrant who has failed or refused to report for induction shall continue to remain liable for induction and when available shall be immediately inducted. The President is authorized, from time to time, whether or not a state of war exists, to select and induct into the Armed Forces of the United States for training and service in the manner provided in this title (said sections) (including but not limited to selection and induction by age group or age groups) such number of persons as may be required to provide and maintain the strength of the Armed Forces.

No where in this entire subsection does this statement limit it to reservist. You want it to be so, but you are wrong.

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[–]utmostgentleman1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It is so rare to see someone so clearly insane but able to function in society. I'd continue to point out that the selective service faq states the reinstating conscription would require an act of congress but you seem to think that a government agency would lie on their public website even when you seem to think the truth is obvious on its face.

Nobody wants to touch conscription with a hundred foot pole. Even GW Bush at the bottom of his historically low approval ratings continued to stop loss troops rather than turn to conscription which strikes me as odd if he could do it on a whim. The last time congress voted to change the rules for conscription is was defeated with only two votes in the affirmative.

And yet you still think that conscription is something that could happen at the will of the executive...

Seriously, you're like some weird, autistic, onion of crazy especially with the accusations of feminism but I love how utterly disconnected from political reality you are. It's like a train wreck, I just can't turn away.

[–]jtaylor730031 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]jtaylor730031 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hmm. Let me think. I give you the actual law that states the President can in act draft without congress or war. You counter to this fact is I feel that it takes an act of congress. You then go off to mention stop-loss where the government extended contracts of soldiers, even though if there hadn't been a need of the military those same soldiers would of been able to negotiate bonuses for any extension. It takes some serious cognitive dissonance to keep claiming that the government doesn't act selfishly. You used shaming tactics to begin with, then tried to claim the high road when that didn't work. Heck the only feminist thing you haven't done is try to report me to the mods. I am still waiting for that one.

You act like feminist. You argue like a feminist. You cry like a feminist. Ergo you must be a feminist. If you prefer I can call you a Nazi or a KKK member or any collective you want to be part of.

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Title	Selective Service & The Draft Is The Draft Coming Back The Obama Admin Liz Trotta Commentary
Author	jtaylor73003
Upvotes	16
Comments	98
Date	April 21, 2015 5:22 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/33boqr/selective_service_the_draft_is_the_draft_coming/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/selective-service-the-draft-is-the-draft-coming.982252 https://theredarchive.com/post/982252

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