The pitfalls of MGTOW Thinking and its connection to Post Modern/ Cultural Marxist Thought.

xNOM · 2014-12-15T11:54:23+00:00

The true mgtows are the grass eaters. They just do it. They don't talk about it.

ManUpManDown · 2014-12-15T14:02:24+00:00

Your use of the phrases "post-modern", "cultural Marxism", and "Frankfurt School" is a bit unclear. I have never seen an MRA post anything that I would characterize as any of these, and simply invoking the basic concepts of group conflict and context-specific marginalization (or even "oppression") doesn't qualify.

Expounding on social reality is indispensable to MRA theory. We should do more of it, even if it leads to the use of terms, commonly used by feminists, that are useful tools to frame that reality. This is perfectly consistent with a non-ideological "Enlightenment" approach to argument. Selectively invoking, say, Marxist concepts is not nearly the same a resorting to a Marxist METHODOLOGY of argument or activism.

rottingchrist · 2014-12-15T09:40:52+00:00

We would all agree men get a bad wrap on some parts of our lives

As long as people realize that and why men want to improve their condition, most here would be happy.

I doubt anyone here is attached to the idea that men are "oppressed". Though by the SJW definition of the word, they certainly are.

TFCNU · 2014-12-15T15:25:59+00:00

We need to stop trying to ideologically limit our thinking on gender. The great failure of feminism is that it became trapped in its Marxist dialectical structure even as all evidence for the patriarchy waned. If the men's movement becomes equally restricted by its atheist/libertarian roots, it will quickly lose its salience.

Men's rights must be more than a criticism of feminism. Traditional gender roles are equally dangerous. Should we eschew all traditional rhetoric as well? I'm much less interested in word choice than I am in waking men up to reality. Whether a man gets it when you tell him that marriage is not a rational choice or he gets it when you tell him that marriage oppresses men is immaterial to me.

Tusse · 2014-12-15T17:06:06+00:00

The trouble with MGTOW (and WGTOW fwiw) is that it's simply giving in, instead of actually getting things to go your way.

You have about until you are 30 to find a meaningful relationship, financial security and to have kids. You can attempt it later, but it gets harder every year.

Once that time is gone, it's gone and you're too old --- you have won the battle and lost the war and feminism has eliminated you, for good.

a-brown-bear · 2014-12-16T22:57:51+00:00

I think you should watch some Barbarossa videos. A few things off the top of my mind, if you think this is about fighting cultural marxism, well that is something of a boogeyman, the enemy is gynocentrism not cultural marxism. As far as being oppressed, barbarossa has said that the claim itself is not a problem its whether or not the claim is factual.

Chopstew449VT · 2014-12-15T07:25:05+00:00

Agreed. There's a tendancy in any debate to borrow the language of your opponents, and that's usually a mistake if said language has been selected to favour their point.

guywithaccount · 2014-12-15T21:08:33+00:00

When I hear about men as a group being "Labeled", "oppressed" and other terms associated with Frankfurt School style rhetoric, I get worried.

You can't talk about men's problems if you can't talk about men's problems. The language isn't the issue (although some of it is a bit hysterical); the problem is when ideology takes over and the language becomes less about communication and more about social signaling and thought termination.

I suspect the resistance some have to talking about men being "victims" and so forth is a result of being socialized into the same stoic gender roles we're opposed to.

iainmf · 2014-12-15T07:47:18+00:00

The average men's rights activist (MRA) is hostile to feminism. And yet he also agrees fundamentally with the feminist agenda.

How has this situation come about? It seems to me that there are two major wings of the MRM. The first is a liberal one ... Some of the more right-liberal ones limit themselves to calls for procedural equality. But others are more radical and want to follow through more consistently with the liberal ideal of making gender not matter. It's therefore often assumed at MRM sites that masculinity is an oppressive construct; that the aim of the MRM is to liberate men from masculinity; that society should be strictly gender neutral, including in parental roles and in having women drafted into combat roles; and that feminist countries like Sweden are the models for the rest of the world to follow.

The second wing of the MRM are the male separatists (who call themselves "men going their own way" or MGTOW). These are men who have grown up in an age of female individualism. Their experience is of a society which is geared toward maximising female autonomy, whether it's in terms of education, careers or family ... How do men react to female individualism? One way (the traditionalist way) is to criticise a radical individualism, for both sexes, as socially destructive. But the male separatists don't do this. They respond instead by trying to imagine an individualism of their own. ... It ends up sounding uncannily like the feminism of the 1970s, but with the sexes reversed. In the 1970s, it was feminists who thought marriage was oppressive to women, who promoted separatist solutions, and who therefore painted men in the most unflattering light possible.

Tusse · 2014-12-15T08:05:14+00:00

Sounds like a good time to remind ourselves of the MGTOW Manifesto as envisioned by its founders.

Title	The pitfalls of MGTOW Thinking and its connection to Post Modern/ Cultural Marxist Thought.
Author	Chopstew449VT
Upvotes	0
Comments	18
Date	December 15, 2014 7:19 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2pc90j/the_pitfalls_of_mgtow_thinking_and_its_connection/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/the-pitfalls-of-mgtow-thinking-and-its-connection.992103 https://theredarchive.com/post/992103

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