Men's Rights Misunderstood: "Lack of a Manifesto"

SRSLovesGawker · 2014-06-06T00:47:33+00:00

Anyone who thinks MRAs divide ourselves into "alphas" and "betas" clearly has no understanding whatsoever about the MHRM, full stop.

Sharou · 2014-06-06T01:36:17+00:00

"There is sexism against women and sexism against men. But the sexism against men is actually just caused by the men being so [repeats all sexist notions about men]."

Bravo...

No really just wow. Fucking wow.

guywithaccount · 2014-06-06T00:48:41+00:00

What I see a solution is as saying, "There is no script. There is no guarantee in life. But if you want X thing, then you must be prepared to honestly ask, 'So why am I not getting it?' and interrogate yourself boldly to see what you'd need to do to get it - whether that's money, companionship, love, beauty, fresh pancakes - and then do that."

Complete bullshit.

First of all, there are scripts in life. If you want fresh pancakes, by god, you walk into an IHOP and tell them you want pancakes and you will get them. DONE. If you want money... well, that's a little more complicated. Supposedly you work hard for it. But education, business savvy, genius, luck, upbringing, inborn privilege, and just the right amount of sociopathy also matter, and sometimes working hard isn't worth much. But even so, we recognize "hard work" as part of a script, even if that script doesn't always work - and we see how upset people get when they've done what they're "supposed" to, according to society, and don't get repaid accordingly. No one anywhere is telling poor folks who work hard that they shouldn't have expected anything (though they may be accusing them of being stupid and lazy).

There are scripts for companionship and love, too. They're hopelessly broken, but we have them. But when someone can't get those things, they'll eventually do a self-eval in an effort to get what they want. And what will they find? Maybe something. Maybe nothing. Then what?

You can't say there's no script. If there wasn't, Lonely Joe could try to attract women by hoarding blueberries. A whole house, filled with blueberries! Or rain dances. Or cutting off his foot. If there were really no script, anything would be just as good as anything else.

Generally, this goes one of three ways. One is, Joe finds some glaring inadequacy (oh hey, I'm unemployed, no one wants a man with no income) and tries to address it. Two is that he doesn't. Sure, he may not be the greatest man on earth, but Joe has done everything basically right. Maybe he could be taller or richer or something, but zillions of guys like him meet women. And then he gets pissed - rightly so! - that he's getting jipped. Three is that he goes looking for a new script, a no-bullshit script that really works, and now Joe is a PUA, because they're the only people in the world telling him that they can help him.

You are not guaranteed success. At anything.

The way this reads, it sounds like some kind of macho hard truth, but it's really not. It's just a "fuck you" to all who have tried and failed for reasons that they can't identify or understand. It blames people for their failure, whether they're really at fault or not, and tells them that they're delusional spoiled brats for daring to feel upset.

tallwheel · 2014-06-06T02:26:52+00:00

I swear, if people even knew what the movement they're critiquing actually is in the first place, so much less time would be wasted, and we would be spared so much stupidity.

iongantas · 2014-06-06T07:40:15+00:00

So, I didn't slog through this, but I gather that it essentially attributes "traditional masculinity" as the focus of the MRM?

Nomenimion · 2014-06-06T01:37:24+00:00

People who bow to an orthodoxy while wasting their time scolding those who fail to obey its dictates may have trouble grasping the concept of thinking for yourself.

Hungerwolf · 2014-06-06T02:53:07+00:00

elebrin · 2014-06-06T06:07:13+00:00

Their friendships are shallower

Bull. Fucking. Shit. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

a movement where guys... [are] structuring themselves into hierarchies where by acting up in increasingly bold ways they get status, and are encouraged to think about all the things they're owed due to their machismo ideas but not getting.

Here's the thing: structure provides comfort. It provides a path, a known way to get something or accomplish a goal. When people have structured themselves into a hierarchy (like a corporation or a fraternity), there is always a person responsible for everything and a clear way to accomplish goals. It will take work and the proper channels must be followed, but if they are you can usually accomplish what you want with no drama.

You don't get ahead in an organized society by acting up. Acting up gets you kicked out or marginalized. It ruins the flow of activities and undermines the structure. A well organized group can do whatever its members are motivated to do. Getting a loose group of individuals with no structure, no leader, no division of labor to do anything at all is like herding cats.

If, as men, we want to have happy and drama-free social lives, the best thing we can do is join a formal group. Be it a Lodge, a college fraternity, a bowling team, a church, or a community club, they all have certain things in common:

There is a single, usually elected, head honcho.
Underneath the head honcho there are some officers that have specific roles, usually they are also elected.
For special tasks and activities, there are committees. Some are chaired by officers, others by regular members, but usually committee chairs are appointed.
Everyone gets a say in the organization's business, and meetings are structured so everyone can have input but also so one voice can't overrule anyone else.
In the case a consensus can't be reached, the head honcho makes the decisions.
The procedures for how people join, how people get elected, what committees there are, and what the group can and can't do is set by some written bylaws that are difficult to change.
The group has an oversight committee that is made up of former head honchos or elders who have been around for a long time, whose job it is to ensure the wrong people don't get elected or appointed to the wrong positions and if they do, it is their job to help rectify the situation.
Sometimes there is a national or state level oversight group that needs to approve bylaws changes and lays down certain minimal rules about how the groups under it must operate.

There are hundreds of thousands of groups that follow that plan, and it works. It works so well to keep drama at bay. I think all men should consider joining a group such as this and revolve their social lives around it. I have, and I am happier for it.

Here's a dirty little secret, as well: it works for women too.

Title	Men's Rights Misunderstood: "Lack of a Manifesto"
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	3
Comments	9
Date	June 5, 2014 11:43 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/27fe4m/mens_rights_misunderstood_lack_of_a_manifesto/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/mens-rights-misunderstood-lack-of-a-manifesto.999618 https://theredarchive.com/post/999618

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