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How do you get over a Madonna-Whore complex?

depressedboii69

December 25, 2019

15 upvotes

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/r/exredpill/comments/efni10/how_do_you_get_over_a_madonnawhore_complex/

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Post Information

Title	How do you get over a Madonna-Whore complex?
Author	depressedboii69
Upvotes	15
Comments	17
Date	December 25, 2019 11:28 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/efni10/how_do_you_get_over_a_madonnawhore_complex/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/how-do-you-get-over-a-madonna-whore-complex.303422 https://theredarchive.com/post/303422

Comments

[–]Yesm3can4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]dongtouch2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There are very deep issues here around your view of sexuality in general which probably need some professional guidance to untangle. If you can, I would highly recommend finding a sex-positive counselor or therapist. If money is an issue, interns are a good place to start, or any local MFT schools that have students doing practice sessions.

FWIW, I was a girl curious and preoccupied with sex and physical intimacy and affection from a very young age. I did have some bad experiences along the way, which repressed me (the opposite of what you saw), and it was only through letting myself explore and be sexual with lots of different people that I now feel free, happy, and able to assertively pursue sex that is healthy and respectful. So having sexual experiences was actually a way to heal, not act out hurt, and it could potentially go that way for you, also. Before that, backtrack and start socializing platonically with as many different women as you can. Start seeing how they are regular people with wants, needs, and agency just like men. If you do nothing else, observe our humanity.

[–]ro8e2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ro8e9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

Disclaimer: my views about sexuality are kinda unorthodox and I look at the subject through egalitarian and sex-positive lenses. I'm gonna write a wall of text with my reasoning and write the actual advice at the end of it (and it's super late already, but I'll try to make this coherent). It's gonna sound preachy but here goes...

The Madonna-Whore complex is all about control of the women's choice and bodies (found an interesting post and a study which explain it in more detail and a 12min vid about inequality of the sexes). Realize that women have their desires and the same right to experience things as men. You can't expect an inexperienced woman to become a sex goddess just because you're her first. She's not like a clay to be formed by you, she decides what she goes after and it could turn out you 2 won't be a good match i.e. when it turn out you expect or like different stuff in bed, your views on mono/polysexuality differ or one of you wants to explore their fantasies outside the other's comfort zone.

Someone's partner count isn't a signifier of their "value" - it's just that they have more experience than you and prolly know what they want in a relationship. The Madonna-Whore complex is often times a double standard set by men - they're allowed to get wild in their youth but the woman is supposed to wait patiently for them and tone down (or even reject) her sexuality otherwise she's slut-shamed. And there's another possibility she'll be called a prude if she's not into exploring herself before she gets together with the "one" (which may or may not mean she's asexual or has some hang-ups with sex/intimacy), but I'm getting side-tracked now...

I believe those who enforce the Madonna-Whore complex are oblivious to its paradox. You either accept a woman you meet is a sexual being aware of her desires and who goes after them or she lacks the experience, is awkward or just not interested. The "enforcers", let's call them, are into the idea of a submissive partner and don't care for her own good imo. The complex isn't only enforced by men of course. There's plenty of women who think similarly but I have the impression the Madonna is sought more after by men than women.

Another thing which I think correlates to the complex, is the enforcer's low self-esteem and maybe abandonment issues alongside the need to control/be served by someone. They may fear that their partner's aware there are other (possibly better) options, that the enforcer is inadequate and lacks in whatever thing their partner likes or they're be laughed at. The enforcer may also be scared of the repercussion from the social circle or their work place. These things lead to him placing responsibility for his hurt feelings, untreated fears or social stigma on her, which is why he wants to morph her like a doll, dehumanising her in the process and maybe falling not for her, but for the idea of her. It's important to think which thing is more important - the guy's desires and his private life, or are the social repercussions too much for him.

So I guess, the best thing to overcome the complex, is realizing what is it what you actually look for in a partner. What are your boundaries, your expectations or must-haves in a relationship. It's possible to find a girl-next-door who's curious but inexperienced (and 100% sure what she's into before she's had any sexual encounters besides fiction and maybe sexting) but it's rare. The healthiest approach would be realizing that your prospective partner's an individual and you have no control over their bodily autonomy and their past. If one wants a sex goddess (or really just someone who's enthusiastic about sex and/or kinky stuff), I think the best thing would be rationalising any negative/controlling thoughts as they come regarding the woman in question's sexuality/experiences. It's unfair to expect her to stay chaste and develop high libido which would come with the package of enforcer's kinks/expectations only after she gets into the relationship with him. This expectation denies woman's freedom and guilts her, as in, she needs to place her present needs and curiosity lower than the future male partner's. I hope more guys will come to share their experiences because my views are biased.

[–]TheMadWoodcutter5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ro8e3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheMadWoodcutter3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TeePeeDucks1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ro8e3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

She can internalize it and project on herself (as in, she wants to explore, but is afraid of being regarded as "impure") or she might be self-conscious of the guy's partner count. This then would lead to thinking he's either playing with her or she's disappointed she's not his first too. Both things steam from the need to control her partner and her desire to be wanted, and maybe from being brought up in purity culture and/or having unrealistic expectations of how the relationship ought to look like.

The roles could be reversed of course and I'm afraid I don't know the exact "cure" for this complex(es).

edit: More generalizations cause why not: I get the feeling women who enforce this complex do so more from jealousy and fear of abandonment, whereas men feel threatened by a sexual woman or fear being seen as weaker or lesser compared to her previous partners. The complex would fit even more demographies, eg. a lesbian who feels threatened by her bi gf's previous or possible encounters with guys etc.

[–]TeePeeDucks0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ro8e0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ro8e5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Coollogin2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe I feel sad for them because the only (3) times I was approached for casual sex at a bar or party it was always some insecure girl. Every time they told me a sob story. The first was a girl who just talked to me about how much she hated her dad etc. We made out, and then she tried to take things further and I was uncomfortable with it. It felt wrong like I was "taking advantage" of her, since I knew she was just trying to fill some hole created by depression that I could not fill. The second talked to me about her recent break up with her ex boyfriend. And kind of obnoxiously tried to french kiss me without my consent. It was clear she was trying to use me as a "rebound", IE, empty validation. Idk, I feel uncomfortable with the idea of using someones body for validation or to fill some hole that i don't believe can be filled with sex or validation.

Did you like any of these women? Did you consider asking them out for a date?