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Fuck this subreddit

Jolly-Lemon · 2020-03-20T10:01:55+00:00

I looked at the comments made by /u/HighDuchess and the (positive) responses that her comments got her ("women are property in Nigeria") and all I...

Jolly-Lemon

March 20, 2020

0 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Fuck this subreddit
Author	Jolly-Lemon
Upvotes	0
Comments	27
Date	March 20, 2020 10:01 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/flshvo/fuck_this_subreddit/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/fuck-this-subreddit.1063804 https://theredarchive.com/post/1063804

Comments

[–]LacklustreFriend 17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]spudmixMachine Rights Activist -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]LacklustreFriend 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]spudmixMachine Rights Activist 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LacklustreFriend 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]spudmixMachine Rights Activist -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mewacketergi 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]plitox_is_a_bitch 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aaod 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]mewacketergi 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I agree with this, but I do think their is a massive difference between caring about womens issues

MRM doesn't exactly have good presence in the media, or effective outreach public outreach programs at the moment, and out public image is mostly defined by our public enemies...

especially those in third world countries and supporting feminism

You also have to understand how someone in the third world, particularly unused to thinking critically about these issues, who have always associated feminism with solutions to painfully needed problems that affect them personally might feel shocked to discover that there is also another, darker side to it, that they haven't been aware of until recently.'

(this kind of reminds me of what /u/spudmix says he is attempting to do here, if we are to be charitable and assume that he steelmans all arguments equally, and not just pro-feminist ones and those he likes)

especially feminism in western countries such as America

Unfortunately, uncritical thinking and lack of objective information might mean that they will never learn the difference. This is something we should be trying to combat, and I think my conversation with that Nigerian girl went OK in this regard.

[–]Aaod 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

MRM doesn't exactly have good presence in the media, or effective outreach public outreach programs at the moment, and out public image is mostly defined by our public enemies...

Unfortunately I feel trying to change the laughably false image of us when feminism controls the media and narrative is a waste of time and us being able to rely on public opinion or empathy is an impossibility due to the women are wonderful effect/ the fact people don't care at all about men viewing us as at best disposable. Different scenarios and situations require different responses.

You also have to understand how someone in the third world, particularly unused to thinking critically about these issues, who have always associated feminism with solutions to painfully needed problems that affect them personally might feel shocked to discover that there is also another, darker side to it, that they haven't been aware of until recently.'

Their are two paths towards deprogramming people who were in a cult gradual which usually doesn't work because it relies on them being interested in changing or ripping off the band-aid. Sure it feels painful to rip off that band-aid, but it is shoving people face first into the truth so that they can stop denying it. America had to force Germans to confront the death camps and crimes of the regime so that it broke them and it never happened again. We have to use the same kind of tactic when dealing with feminism because they have repeatedly shown other tactics do not work.

This also has the advantage of being stronger against those who are just trying to infiltrate and influence the movement just because they want to stab us in the back like they have repeatedly tried to do and have succeeded in doing so in the past.

Maybe I am just biased though because I prefer the truth no matter how painful it is even if that usually upsets people just because that is how my personality is.

[–]mewacketergi 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You raise a few good points, but there is also a few things that made me go "AAAAAARGHH" in your comment...

Unfortunately I feel trying to change the laughably false image of us when feminism controls the media and narrative is a waste of time

Feminists do not control all of the media, all of the time. And there are also conservatives and non-feminists whom we could reach. Growing awareness of crisis of rigor in the academia could be used as an opportunity to spread awareness... But how many either organized or grassroots initiatives that try to reach people does MRM really have?

I personally think that Cassie Jaye's documentary alone did more good to the public awareness of our movement than most of what Paul Elam did, and despite what We Hunted The Mammoth says, we weren't even funding most of her documentary!

Instead, most of us are sitting around on the internet making angry memes.

To summarize this, let me quote one of our critics that actually makes some sense, at least occasionally (not to be misunderstood as my endorsement of her on unrelated points):

Fourth, and most importantly, movements are supposed to move. Hey, wait a second, let me yell again. MOVEMENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO MOVE. I look around the men’s rights movement and you know what I see? Some two-person protests where someone pretends to be Batman, some petitions that can’t gather a thousand signatures, a few activist groups with almost no political power, some pick-up artists, some socially awkward people not dating anyone anymore and a whole lot of complaining in comments sections. Listen, you guys. Shakesville has organized letter-writing campaigns that got ads taken off TV, Jessica Valenti and Jaclyn Friedman have published books and spoken at colleges, the SlutWalks have started a damn international movement. It is totally possible! I mean, I’m a little bit of a hypocrite here because I’m a blogger who does a lot of complaining in comments sections, but I’ve also volunteered for Planned Parenthood and feminist congresscritters, and I have my congresspeople’s numbers on speed dial, and I’ve signed so many petitions I get phone calls every day with people trying to make me give them money.

You want to know why your movement isn’t going anywhere? Because you don’t have enough footsoldiers like me and too many footsoldiers who want to sit in a corner and talk about how when the apocalypse happens those women who didn’t like me in high school are totally going to be sorry.

The rest of this shit here: https://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/who-cares-about-mens-rights/

Like, I know that BlueOrange22 is going around talking to people in LA, doing stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fx2H6ij7pk

But why is he an exception, rather than the rule? If you assume that MRM is not in its larval stage, we sure have some fucking problems with organizing.

Their are two paths towards deprogramming people who were in a cult

They are not in a cult. Most of them just didn't have a reason to look deeper into the matter, similarly to how most of us, most of the time, don't deviate from mainstream consensus on topics where we didn't have a personal stake in the matter.

We have to use the same kind of tactic when dealing with feminism because they have repeatedly shown other tactics do not work.

I don't disagree completely, but there are too many reasons this statement could be used to justify learned helplessness, or tactics that are just not productive. Feminists aren't that big, or powerful, and outside of academia, they are a minority, no matter how loud, or hissy. There are still people we could reach, and I'm concerned that we aren't actually trying.

This also has the advantage of being stronger against those who are just trying to infiltrate and influence the movement just because they want to stab us in the back like they have repeatedly tried to do and have succeeded in doing so in the past.

That seems too elaborate for me to consider a realistic possibility, Occam's and Hanlon's Razors are important heuristics.

EDIT:

Mostly I try to find the humor in it at my own subreddit. We enjoy taking women's entitled displays from Tinder and other hookup sites and showing their hypergamy and hypocrisy in its glory.

You personalty is just one data point in the whole set. You can be an outlier this way, or that, for better or worse, but the general tendency is still there.

[–]Aaod 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Feminists do not control all of the media, all of the time. And there are also conservatives and non-feminists whom we could reach.

I question how much reaching out to conservatives would accomplish because we are anti traditionalism and anti gender roles, but their are possibilities.

Growing awareness of crisis of rigor in the academia could be used as an opportunity to spread awareness... But how many either organized or grassroots initiatives that try to reach people does MRM really have?

Very few because being openly MRA is basically an automatic job loss and friends+family loss much less stating you are anti feminist because of how much power feminism has and how little society cares about men. We can't even get organized because feminism has so much power and is more than willing to outright destroy anyone who takes the spotlight away from them much less opposes them. Like they fought one of us so hard on something as basic as a male domestic violence shelter via protests and influencing it so we can't get funding that he killed himself. If that is the level of power, violence, and control they have over society getting stuff organized is pointless and I honestly feel we are better off spending our time fighting them. The first step to standing up and recovering is getting the boot off your throat. The less power feminism has or better yet if it is destroyed then we could actually organize and start improving the lives of men.

Ironically by feminism taking away our voice it is just going to force people to resort to fighting feminism if not the use of outright violence against it. JFK has a quote about this "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." If they had just stood aside and not fought us or god forbid actually fucking helped us long ago when their was not so much bad blood we never would have reached this point and we would not be fighting them so fucking hard. You reap what you sow and just as one example the horrible shit I have seen feminists say to male rape victims or domestic violence victims is a good example of why they deserve this treatment. For crying out loud mens lib banned a male rape victim because he pointed out his treatment by feminists after being raped.

I personally think that Cassie Jaye's documentary alone did more good to the public awareness of our movement than most of what Paul Elam did

Personally I saw it not get much attention especially from the mainstream and half of the attention was just people who disregarded it because of feminisms brain washing.

Instead, most of us are sitting around on the internet making angry memes.

circle jerking and making memes are stress relief, recruitment fodder, and a way to raise consciousness. Marx's writing was frequently distributed in smaller form or blurbs to the workers instead of the thick ass hard to read book and labor/union groups especially like the I.W.W. used propaganda and song for recruitment and consciousness raising. A meme and ranting online is no different it is just the modern equivalent. Look at the difference between zoomers and millenials one was fed a lot of feminist propaganda and the other has seen the truth via online efforts and is thus more willing to mock feminism or stand against the SJW crowd. These memes are how we are reaching people especially people who have been fucked by feminism and are open to people say fuck feminists.

Another example I am loathe to use is all the memes and internet propaganda that helped Trump gain so many followers.

But why is he an exception, rather than the rule? If you assume that MRM is not in its larval stage, we sure have some fucking problems with organizing.

Same reason organizing your workplace is hard you can get fired from your job for it and not only that but lose friends and family because you are doing so because feminism has so much fucking control over society. It is like dealing with a secret police force where if you speak out against the regime or anything of the sort you are hung in the public square as a message to others which means those who might have helped you previously refuse to do so for fear of their own life. Thus underground and resorting to terrorist tactics or little things to piss off the regime such as secretly distributing pamphlets and propaganda. If you can't stand out in the open because of the vast power differential you hide and do what little you can and understand that those that are in the open are acting as martyrs.

They are not in a cult. Most of them just didn't have a reason to look deeper into the matter, similarly to how most of us, most of the time, don't deviate from mainstream consensus on topics where we didn't have a personal stake in the matter.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck chances are it is a duck. Feminism has near religious beliefs in people because the political became personal when we started abandoning religion (something I am all for) and people embraced stuff like feminism to replace it. Look at how they repeat mantras that are completely untrue and the leaders know them to be untrue as a form of group unity and brainwashing such as the wage gap myth or how they react to members who question their own beliefs. It is a religion like all other religions.

I don't disagree completely, but there are too many reasons this statement could be used to justify learned helplessness, or tactics that are just not productive. Feminists aren't that big, or powerful, and outside of academia, they are a minority, no matter how loud, or hissy.

When they have the ability to influence popular opinion and have people fired or tossed in jail they in my eyes have a lot of power and influence. Look at the DaMore memo incident where feminists threatened to quit unless he was fired or believe all women thing that is putting innocent people in jail despite previous historical examples of why that is a stupid idea (whole lot of lynched African Americans that stand as testament as to why). They also have the ability to infiltrate communities and groups and then control that community as we have seen with gaming or the atheism split with things like elevator gate.

[–]mewacketergi 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I question how much reaching out to conservatives would accomplish because we are anti traditionalism and anti gender roles, but their are possibilities.

Many of the core points raised in the book Boy Crisis could be used to build common ground.

Very few because being openly MRA is basically an automatic job loss and friends+family loss much less stating you are anti feminist because of how much power feminism has and how little society cares about men.

We can't even get organized because feminism has so much power and is more than willing to outright destroy anyone who takes the spotlight away from them much less opposes them.

For starters, many blue collar industries aren't like that.

While the original Suffrage movement wasn't deterred by the threat of prison sentence, lynching, ostracism, and force-feeding, yet we are so completely crushed by non-violent rebukes of our relatively gentle time? I'm not convinced.

circle jerking and making memes are stress relief, recruitment fodder, and a way to raise consciousness.

Nothing wrong with any of these things, but when are we moving past that?

Another example I am loathe to use is all the memes and internet propaganda that helped Trump gain so many followers.

Trump's supporters are very visible offline, MRM, — alas, not so much.

Same reason organizing your workplace is hard you can get fired from your job for it and not only that but lose friends and family because you are doing so because feminism has so much fucking control over society.

Again, not all industries are like Google in that James Damore story.

Feminism has near religious beliefs in people because the political became personal when we started abandoning religion (something I am all for) and people embraced stuff like feminism to replace it.

I don't disagree. I too, mentally model feminism as something closer to religion, than to a political movement.

It is a religion like all other religions.

But while your analysis is OK, you overlook positive and legitimate roles religion can play, that cause distraught people to turn to religion in the first place.

Look at the DaMore memo incident where feminists threatened to quit unless he was fired or believe all women thing

Damore was courageous, if socially unskilled, and his story generated conversations, many of which were sympathetic, and I would say, despite his personal tragedy, it was a win for the men's movement.

They also have the ability to infiltrate communities and groups and then control that community as we have seen with gaming or the atheism split with things like elevator gate.

So why don't we infiltrate their community? Isn't how this works? I fail to be terrified of a pro-feminist take-over of MRM, for some unfathomable reason. :P

[–]Aaod 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

While the original Suffrage movement wasn't deterred by the threat of prison sentence, lynching, ostracism, and force-feeding, yet we are so completely crushed by non-violent rebukes of our relatively gentle time? I'm not convinced.

Losing your job is a form of violence when it can render you homeless and or starving. We also have the male gender role shoved on us so we have to be a provider and thus money is more necessary to survive and we can not rely on the kindness of others unlike women which is why the male homeless rate is so much higher. Not exactly likely for us to have a wife supporting us while we are out fighting for our rights when women have that option.

Another factor is the modern economy has changed which makes protesting harder which is one of the reasons Occupy failed when previously it could have been successful.

Nothing wrong with any of these things, but when are we moving past that?

It is always going to exist you don't stop just because X goal is met and we have nowhere near enough members to influence things so expect to see a lot more of it before larger actions happen.

Trump's supporters are very visible offline, MRM, — alas, not so much.

Try wearing a red MAGA hat in some liberal place like San Francisco and see the reaction you get that is what we are dealing with. The only place we can hide out is online and even then only in certain areas because anywhere else we get attacked or kicked out due to feminists controlling spaces. They make active fucking effort to take over spaces online for example just so they can kick people like us out and silence us.

Again, not all industries are like Google in that James Damore story.

True, but they can be influenced as well look at what happens when someone is falsely accused of sexual assault or something by feminists usually the company immediately throws him under the bus because they know how much power feminists have. The fact he is innocent until proven guilty doesn't matter to feminists and companies bow to their pressure.

But while your analysis is OK, you overlook positive and legitimate roles religion can play, that cause distraught people to turn to religion in the first place.

It can, but when that same religion is doing its best to actively hurt people I am still going to speak out against it and tell them they should stop being members of that religion because whether they hold the same stances or want to commit the same violence their contribution is powering a machine that is doing those things. It is the same sentiment behind ACAB all cops are bastards because even those not doing bad things are encouraging a system by their participation that is guilty of heinous crimes and because of their silence and protecting people on their "team" it means those people will go on to keep doing bad things. Joining up because the initial message you heard was X is fine, but if you are then shown it is Y you don't keep clinging to the belief it is X just because that is what you were initially told and thought. I don't blame them for being fooled I blame them for contiually being a fool and staying a part of it. I am not the kind of person that spat on vietnam soldiers returning just because I disagreed with the war they were hoodwinked, but when they sign up for a second fucking tour or brag about how they liked killing rice eaters or some other racial slur? Fuck em.

Damore was courageous, if socially unskilled, and his story generated conversations, many of which were sympathetic, and I would say, despite his personal tragedy, it was a win for the men's movement.

The general conversations I saw in liberal areas was "That dude is a sexist asshole fucking alt right MRA assholes." because they didn't even read the fucking memo or if they did read it they completely failed to understand it.

So why don't we infiltrate their community? Isn't how this works? I fail to be terrified of a pro-feminist take-over of MRM, for some unfathomable reason. :P

They tried to take over and influence this very subreddit and got kicked out. Their response after that was to try and make an identical subreddit that as far no one paid attention to. Anything they can't control they will attempt to destroy which is why the mods here have had to be so careful policing what people say including people like me. They know the admins are watched and feminists will use it to get us removed but feminists can say and do whatever the fuck they want because admins and society on their side.

[–]mewacketergi 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Melthengylf 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Strikester101 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Melthengylf 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

HighDuchess is a nigerian user. She came here to learn about male issues. She became disheartened by the dismissal of women issues and the attacks on feminism. She started to say something akin "If you don't care about all the issues women face in my country, I don't care about your issues either". You can check the issues she mentioned, which are quite horrible, including child marriage and other things like that. I tried to say something like "I do care about nigerian women, and I don't believe male and female issues are opposite". Now, this user somewhat finds what highduchess said, which was quite in a honest and genuine place of concern of the people she knew, and because of this, this user says that he hates this subreddit. Let me say that the mod Serpentine also commented that he cared about women issues.

[–]Strikester101 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Melthengylf 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Strikester101 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mewacketergi 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Melthengylf 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]C0dey 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]J-Unleashed 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]czerdec 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link