How accurate is this?

LacklustreFriend · 2019-11-25T12:53:42+00:00

I'm really confused at what this article is trying to say. It feels like they found a single data point and tried to extrapolate a whole social theory from it (that just happens to be clickbaity and friendly to the feminist idea of a pre-historical matriarchal utopia). A lot of the article doesn't even discuss things that are directly related to the grandma-evolution link. Like it spends a great deal talking about unique socialization of humans and cooperation by humans, without actually saying why grandmas in particular are so special to this socialization compared to any other relationship in the group. Also the article doesn't specify any difference between maternal and paternal grandmothers. Why not? Is there a difference?

Things to consider not mentioned by this article - men are the greater variable sex. Genetically/evolutionary speaking much of the selective pressure is applied to men.

Protein. Calories are all well and good, but for children to grow what they really need is protein. Where do they get the protein? From their fathers hunting. It seems a clear division of labour - women get calories/carbs, men get protein.

I would go further into this but honestly it's just a pandering pop-science article that sensationalizes a small piece of research.

Kuato2012 · 2019-11-25T03:43:25+00:00

It may be accurate for the Hazda tribe of Tanzania. Extrapolating too far beyond that seems questionable. Our ancestors did hunt a few big game species to extinction, after all.

And it seems to me that a low hunt success rate doesn't negate its importance. Those protein sources, even if sporadic, tend to be a large boon to the tribe.

Faulgor · 2019-11-25T05:57:29+00:00

the researchers were surprised to discover that the women, both young and old, were providing the majority of calories to their families and group-mates.

How labor is divided between the sexes varies between different foraging cultures, although big game hunting is indeed almost exclusively male. What this means is, based on these roles and the material conditions of each culture, which sex brings in "the most calories" varies as well. So while women might provide the majority for the Hadza, this is not a general rule - although afaik the importance of big game hunting is indeed overestimated.

In this foraging society, it turns out, grandmothers were more important to child survival than fathers. Mom and grandma were keeping the kids fed. Not Man the Hunter.

The role of grandmothers is indeed very important and, as the article points out, probably why we are one of the only species with menopause. However things might be more complex, as other species with similarly important grandmothers like Elephants don't have menopause - you can check out this NatGeo article, which suggests that the presence of grandsons might be an important factor.

What is also true is that because resources are generally shared within these cultures, there is less selective pressure for a male mate as a "provider" than is usually thought.

It's this ability to "put our heads together," as Tomasello puts it, that may have allowed humans to survive, thrive and spread across the globe. While the men were out hunting, grandmothers and babies were building the foundation of our species' success – sharing food, cooperating on more and more complex levels and developing new social relationships. In a nutshell, humanity's success may all be dependent on the unique way our ancestors raised their kids. Thanks, Grandma.

I don't quite agree with this conclusion. Men weren't "out hunting" the majority of the time, and it neglects the importance of joyful cooperation between non-related adult males, which is a rare occurence in the animal kingdom. Not so rare between females, as exemplified by Elephants and Orcas above, but where male cooperation occurs, it is mostly outside of main social groups in temporary "bachelor" groups, e.g. Lions, or between related individuals, e.g. Wolves. If social behavior develops in early childhood to profit from food-sharing grandmas, why is this behavior retained into adulthood between males?

I suspect there have been uniquely male developments that facilitated this social behavior, but that goes beyond the scope of this article. Some ideas can be derived from the behavior of Chimpanzees, on which Frans de Waal gave a really interesting TED talk.

orbitaldecayed · 2019-11-25T14:46:05+00:00

lol. "A newer body of research and theory, much of it created by women, has conjured a very different scenario"

It's probably accurate for their sample size of 1 (n=1).

hatefulreason · 2019-11-25T22:38:50+00:00

let's see...

apparently grandmas more productive than SINGLE MALE HUNTER, not exactly more productive than a group of hunters.

would that group of hunters beat grandma at root-picking ? would grandma beat a single hunter or a group of hunters at hunting ?

would a child whose nutrition was based solely on roots be as healthy as a child with a more complex nutrition ?

would a child with root-picking male figures protect himself better from the cold with a root t-shirt or a fur one ?

Title	How accurate is this?
Author	Strikester101
Upvotes	3
Comments	16
Date	November 25, 2019 2:26 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/e198k0/how_accurate_is_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-accurate-is-this.1064372 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064372

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