Soliciting responses

LetsGoAllTheWhey · 2016-10-06T16:53:32+00:00

I'm in my 40s, divorced, and have kids, so I'm not sure I fit your demographic. But I'll answer anyway.

I tried the father and husband route. Lived cheaply so we could afford to live in a decent area on one income so she could stay home with the kids. Advanced myself through online classes and reading. Doubled my income in 10 years to over 6 figures.

During that time, she sat on the couch and did nothing. Barely cooked, never cleaned. When the kids were in school full time, this didn't change. She ran up over $35,000 in credit card debt on things we didn't need. She said she would arrange payment of bills, and managed to keep my credit score low until I found out and took back control of paying bills.

When I was looking to divorce, everyone I talked to acted as if I was being unreasonable. Especially women, they assumed I was looking to trade her in for a newer younger model. No, I was tired of being taken advantage of. I was tired of knowing she was playing Facebook games all day while the kids were in school. I was tired of coming home to a disgusting house and being told I needed to clean more because she was "busy" doing nothing all day. I was tired of getting takeout several times a week, because she didn't bother to cook, because the dishes were still dirty from the previous week.

When she demanded I do more housework, I told her I would do it if she got a job. She claimed she was too busy to work. I used to work from home and got to see how "busy" she was sleeping on the couch, while she claimed she was cleaning.

I am lucky that I got a fairly reasonable divorce, but I still have given her over $100k over the past few years while she sat in her new house doing nothing. She still blames me for the way she keeps her new house, despite the fact that I have never lived there.

The biggest problem with all this is the idea that I was unreasonable and that all the problems were my fault. Everyone ran to her to comfort her and absolve her of everything she did. I was unreasonable. I was the asshole. How dare I keep her at home! No, that was what we discussed before the wedding, that is what she agreed to.

After the divorce, I dated some women, and most of them had hidden their major issues. Huge IRS debts, violence, drug problems, etc. I decided this is too much trouble, and given how things are going in many parts of the world (man gets thrown in jail for months for walking near a woman in a subway, men getting thrown out of college for rape despite getting cleared in court, etc.) women just aren't worth it.

Chittybanger · 2016-10-06T17:05:14+00:00

You should read all of the sidebar material. It's a good introduction to find out what MGTOW is all about.

There has been an increase in articles written about MGTOW lately and they are always filled with misconceptions about us.

Some of these include.. -that we are against having sexual relationships (not true) -we are lonely virgins living in our parents basement (not true, many of us have been married before and saw firsthand how shitty of a deal it is for men) -that we are some kind of social justice movement (Also not true. We have no interest in trying to reform our laws or change society. We have just decided to check out and live our lives the way we want, without trying to live up to society's expectations of us).

You should also contact the moderators of this subreddit. I'm sure they would be more than happy to discuss our lifestyle with you.

As far as my answer to your question...

I want more out of this life than to spend a lifetime of indentured servitude to some woman. Society acts like the purpose of a man's life should be to find some woman to marry and then provide for her and whatever kids she pops out.

Early feminism fought to give women the right to have options. They could chose to be a mother and raise a family, or they could instead focus on a career and pursuing their dreams. Whenever a woman today decides to follow the career oriented path she is praised and encouraged. People talk about how strong and independent she is and say she has courage to follow a different path.

But for some reason, when a man today decides to do the same thing (opt out of marriage and instead focus on living his life the way that makes him happy) , we are shamed and ridiculed. People call us selfish, say we need to grow up and be responsible. Society mocks us for going our own way.

Why is that? That is the question you should be asking when you write your article. Why is it men's responsibility to provide for women. Doesn't our happiness and well being matter just as much as a woman's? Are we nothing more to society than disposable work horses that are intended to provide resources to women?

That's not what I want for my life.. I want something more.

EDITED TO ADD:

"I fear that men are beginning to suspect that we women conned them through the centuries. I fear they are asking themselves -- to women's terrible hurt -- why they should support an able-bodied woman who can earn a good living too, and why should they be responsible for providing a home for women." - Taylor Caldwell (1900-1985)

https://m.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/53qavz/taylor_caldwell_on_natures_great_con/?st=ITYMIZOL&sh=85a8d259&utm_source=mweb_redirect&compact=true

strudel- · 2016-10-06T18:01:27+00:00

I think most of us just want a fair system, but the system is not fair, it's anti-men. From child custody to justice in court rooms. Why would a man have children if odds are he'll get a divorce and never get to see them? Why would a man work hard just to lose 50% of what he earns? Both of these rule out marriage. Now, with false rape accusations, why would a man be in a relationship with a woman if she'll accuse him of raping her or hitting her if he wants to leave her? That rules out sex and relationships for men too.

At the end of day, it's just not worth it.

realpra · 2016-10-06T18:16:43+00:00

Short:

We reject ANY and I mean ANY relationship that is not beneficial to us. This means primarily lopsided marriage laws and common law marriage (ie. cohabitation/LTR).
We reject the state seeing it instead as a giant machine working only for the elite and women to enslave men. 70% of taxes go to women. 99.9% of war casualties are men. We will not go to war for these states.
We reject any shaming of men into doing things that do not benefit us such as being called cowards or not real men.
We reject the notion that WE should fix the broken system. We will do absolutely nothing and play video games as the world burns.
We reject the notion that fathers should pay alimony and child support. Often the kids are forcibly taken from their father and given the choice most of us would much rather get our kids instead of paying for their mother's shopping.
While we don't care about shaming, we reject the notion that we are all smelly virgins living in our mother's basement. Many of us are highly successful in traditional terms. Many of us are good looking and have had a lot of women. Many of us have kids and have tried the marriage and divorce carousel.
We reject the notion that men and women are equal. This is simply not supported by evidence. Men invented, built and maintain civilization - women and feminism are tearing it down.

JStheHammer · 2016-10-06T16:59:15+00:00

Oh look another journalist that's going to write a factually incorrect article about us.

Every popular press article about mgtow in the last year, started with a request just like yours and a promise to be neutral. Instead we see nothing but factually incorrect hit pieces. No thanks.

TVTestPattern · 2016-10-06T17:50:06+00:00

I have an idea... do your own fucking research sweetie pie... just look right over there =>

We did.

Start with this: http://www.mgtowhq.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=286

FraterGGNM · 2016-10-06T19:28:11+00:00

I will answer your specific question with a specific response. I object to any person or institution that demands that I make myself available to be used in any capacity that is potentially detrimental to my health, wealth, happiness and well-being, and I reserve the right to judge for myself, and myself only, what those are. Women, companies, governments, etc. I am not an exploitable resource to be exhausted without suitable recompense, and I, again, reserve the right to determine what constitutes such compensation. Hope that helps.

Hunterogz · 2016-10-06T18:43:57+00:00

My biggest gripe with our feminist society is how few people are willing to hold women accountable for their actions. Everything is mens' fault.

byebyehillary · 2016-10-06T18:51:57+00:00

The expectations that I must be tall, charming, handsome, devoid of mental illness and essentially perfect, but she may be any which way she desires. And God forbid I prefer women who are as fit as me, because that would amount to fat-shaming.

But she may shame as much as she wants regarding my acne, my facial moles, my autism, my social anxiety, whatever.

It's an absurd double standard.

wildfireboat · 2016-10-06T18:54:27+00:00

Here are my two reasons:

The government records marriages and levies taxes at different rates based on your marital status. This is theft and the enablers ought to be hung.
The government has the power to collect a portion greater than $0.00 during a divorce and give to the other divorcee. This is theft and the enablers ought to be hung.

2016-10-06T20:15:02+00:00

Go watch the mid-90s sitcom Home Improvement. Every week, "man's man" Tim Allen is faced with a choice, do something fun and "manly" like tailgate at a football game, or participate in a family activity, as a husband and a father, that conflicts with Tim’s desires. Inevitably, Tim comes up with some harebrained scheme to do both, hijinks ensue and Tim ultimately fails to accomplish anything and lets everybody down. The resolution of every episode is Tim realizing how wrong he was to pursue manly interests and that the real reward is in being a good husband and father.

This is utter fiction of course, the idea that a man living his own life and pursuing his interests is somehow at cross purposes with being a family man. Yet we see it everywhere in media these days. Men are jokes, big hulking cavemen who wouldn’t know shit from shinola if it weren’t for these educated superwomen that continually enrich all our lives without any downside. Men are shamed for their sexuality. A man pursuing a women for sex is seen as a “dog” with “only one thing on his mind”.

The system isn’t fair for women either. A women who chooses a traditional role as a stay at home mom is shamed for somehow letting down the sisterhood, but if she chooses to work there is a whole other crowd (usually women) looking to shame her for abandoning her kids. It's enough to drive a person crazy.

As far as the vitriol and misogyny you find on sites like this, I can’t speak for that. People are in pain and anonymous online forums like these allow them to speak candidly about betrayals and slights by the opposite sex, be they imagined or otherwise.

I will say this, however, that the only reason you bitches weren’t eaten by bears 50 thousand years ago is because me and a couple of buddies figured out how to build walls and make fire and it would be nice to get a thank you every once in a while.

Mgtowredpillonroids · 2016-10-06T17:36:26+00:00

[deleted]

BooDoug · 2016-10-06T17:40:24+00:00

Men can't blame women for having a sense of entitlement. You as a son trust them. You as a brother look out for them. You as a blue pill boyfriend love them. You as a white knight mangina worship them. You as a husband support them. You as a father protect them. You as a grandfather look after them. You as a slave work for them. You as a plumber take shit for them. You as an engineer invent for them. You as a police man believe them. You as a political person sign policies give them equal rights. You as a soldier fight for them. You as a dead man favor them in your will......And many of you as Big Daddy government stand behind them.

JStheHammer · 2016-10-06T18:43:52+00:00

She might be a real person.

Chandra Johnson is a Utah transplant who has covered the justice system, education, social services and politics. Originally from Montana, she graduated with a B.A. in journalism and history from the University of Montana in 2007. After six years in Taos, New Mexico, she relocated to Utah, where she eventually joined the team at The Deseret News as an enterprise reporter. She enjoys wide open spaces, gardening, good grammar, pottery and long walks in the library. Find her on Twitter nson. Email her at [email protected]

BukM1 · 2016-10-06T21:46:35+00:00

what expectations placed on the male gender do you specifically object to and why?

well the issue i have is that overall its an unfair balance its no specific individual role i object to.

In days of past i would accept the role of provider/protector because in return she would be the carer and nurturer. and we would both be individual specialists mutually exchanging our skills/specialisations/talents for a non-zero sum positive benefit for both.

in the modern age however women have convinced themselves that fulfilling their past roles is oppression and they want a more independant career orientated life, I have no problem with this, but their demands and expectations have not adjusted equally and they still expect the same level of providing and protection in return for a reduced benefit to their provider.

what was once a mutually beneficial relationship has stacked too much one way and coupled with technological innovation and new social changes this further erodes the need for a committed relationship with most modern woman.

Women expect men to prove themselves and be the main provider and financial workhorse in the relationship while offering almost nothing in return, other than physical aesthetics or sexual relief.

If you are in anyway intelligent you can optimise your life by getting aesthetic and sexual relief without any of the long term high risk unfair bondage of a modern relationship.

In short men are getting a raw deal and have been for a long time, womens offerings have been further eroding each decade and we have reached a tipping point where many men are starting to actually realise that there is no value to them being in a commited relationship or marriage, the cost significantly outweighs the benefit.

marriage and commitment provides financial security for women, its provides financial liability for men, a bad deal is a bad deal.

Hugeman33 · 2016-10-06T22:56:07+00:00

Getting married and popping out chitlins .

No. fucking. Thanks.

New_Banana_Republic · 2016-10-06T23:11:19+00:00

Men basically bend themselves backwards for pussy. A lot of what they do day to day, is for the potential prospect of pussy.

I reject that.

blue_magoo_62 · 2016-10-07T01:20:35+00:00

There's nothing I want from a relationship. Not even the go-to "obvious" things. I've had plenty and now I'm finished with that part of my life and I'm onto the next chapter. I can rely on myself and I have friends and family. how do you put a value on peace and quiet and solitude and total freedom? if you are not scared to go through this life alone it's truely a wonderful thing.

soelc3 · 2016-10-07T03:31:22+00:00

You're going to get 50 different answers to your questions because MGTOW isn't a movement - it's a loose description of a very narrow choice that men have made with respect to the opposite sex. The rest is up in the air.

nigelh · 2016-10-06T20:14:47+00:00

For the last twelve years I have generally used my own money to finance my own life with nobody to question it. I'm not going to say that everything I have done qualifies as 'sensible' but it has been fun. I have been married and I wouldn't go back to that. There was no 'my money' then, only 'our money' and if I spent 'our money' it has better be on us. However, as I discovered later, there was 'her money'.

It was sad but I learnt my lesson and won't repeat those mistakes. I am just booking my 2017 holidays and it's looking good.

logophiliac · 2016-10-07T02:43:25+00:00

There are thousands of folks who collect stamps. They are not a "movement", nor are they part of a "group" simply because they each enjoy this pastime. In like fashion, MGTOW. Stop calling a number of individuals with a shared characteristic "a group" or "a movement"; it is mistaken and misleading and makes you look like a fucking moron because we've said this umpteen zillion times already.

T0000009 · 2016-10-07T13:19:39+00:00

what expectations placed on the male gender do you specifically object to and why?

While I highly doubt you are sincere in any way, I have some time to waste on what will be misquoted and used as a weapon later.

Lets Begin:

I am a former special forces operator, just like the ultra macho man you see in movies who make you squirm in your seat. Having said that, the Hollywood version is only a sliver of how incredible operators are, and it takes a very special type of man to even be there. I quite literally prepared for it my entire childhood, I earned it and worked incredibly hard to be selected. I'm not some little kid playing video games, or the "pathetic loser" that MGTOW are always described as. I'm not some fat schlub like Homer Simpson either, because I also have a Genius range IQ, my total skill set would fascinate you and the list of accomplishments would blow your mind. There is very little I have not done, or cant do, and I can easily prove it all. That is how the media loves to portray all of us in this club though, we are just a bunch of dumb fat losers who can't get a girl, according to women.

I've worked as a fiber optics network engineer, owned several companies, and traveled the world, in addition to working on stage in front of large crowds. I've been on television shows, and quite a few of my friends have too, I can provide the names but won't to protect them and myself. Is that basement dwelling loser who can't convince some broad to drop her knickers enough for you yet?

All of that effort was wiped away when The blue couch entered my life, The possibility of spending my remaining years in the stockade was a lovely parting gift during my divorce. So I've had more than enough experience with a "commitment" to women and how the view "marriage" when a man is "unstable" according to them.

Now, as a MGTOW I have simply decided that after a LIFETIME of offering all of that and more to women in the past what they offered me simply wasn't enough, to be quite blunt, It's fucking insulting!!

I would rather use my hand than waste my time trying to convince some fat sow that I'm a "real man" and would be willing to be treated like nothing simply to amuse her. I am a veteran who has paid in blood, and watched other men pay their lives just so women can sit in safety and "throw rocks at boys" or drink their "male tears" and brag about "#killallmen" or "#giveyourmoneytowomen" and all the other petty, cruel, and totally idiotic garbage they devise to insult me and other men every day. After all that abuse, all the insults, the unfair laws, the insane double standards, it's blows my mind that you even need to ask!

Men like me stand on the wall in the freezing snow at night, so you and the other harpies can sit by a warm fire and insult us for doing so. while I do realize the concept of "fairness" and "equality" is beyond your understanding, does that really sound very fair or equatable to you?

I'm not willing to die protecting you anymore

That's your answer darling, you can freeze to death on your own!

Zombocom1911 · 2016-10-07T06:05:17+00:00

This may differ for everyone, but what expectations placed on the male gender do you specifically object to and why?

Approaching. Charming. Complimenting. Courtship. Dating. Inflating the female ego. All the ridiculous hoops women expect men to jump through just to have sex, as if all that is a fair exchange. How about she makes me laugh, pays for everything, entertains me, charms me , sweeps me off my feet. Why do they expect it to only flow one way? I can just purchase a whore instead of do all that work.

scorched_throwaway · 2016-10-07T09:39:28+00:00

oh, oh, oh... me please... do you like popcorn? there's a shortage here.. you see we've been watching this decline for a... never mind that!

the deleterious haze we call, well, etc., etc,. you see we want to spread our, well, ingenious, bullet proof methods in reconnecting with your princesses.

they deserve so much better, we need to change the laws, opinions and entitlements, so they receive even more. ..'cause men, (we're just vagina craving fanatics whom will sell our children, not that we are allowed to see them, or that they're even ours)... shit, i'm getting off topic. /s

i want to help... though i believe "JStheHammer" said this more succinctly, than i ever could..

F U C K O F F!!!!!!!

we've walked away! we are done! what do YOU expect to find here?

poetic, no? i'm a fucking poet seriously.. ..just look at the above..

EDIT: fuck! late to the dance again..

jesterace · 2016-10-07T09:42:05+00:00

The traditional male role exists to facilitate the self-actualization of women (through subsidization) at the expense of our own. Rejecting it becomes all too easy once you realize that and you don't have to be MGTOW to figure that out.

Captain-hatefact · 2016-10-06T22:17:52+00:00

We're being forced to change our traditions because women have changed theirs.

chandrajohnson1208 · 2016-10-13T17:51:17+00:00

Hi again,

As requested, here's the resulting article. Thank you all for offering your insights on this issue.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865664684/Why-men-are-opting-out-of-life-and-escaping-into-digital-media.html

Title	Soliciting responses
Author	chandrajohnson1208
Upvotes	19
Comments	61
Date	October 6, 2016 4:33 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/5669ly/soliciting_responses/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/soliciting-responses.618984 https://theredarchive.com/post/618984

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