From A Woman

trseeker · 2018-08-16T22:49:47+00:00

Yes.
It takes two people to get married, but only one to get divorced.
Pain processed, lessons learned.
Certainly conditioning, women are the way they are because we (as a group) allow it to continue.
Everyone was oppressed in the past, everyone is oppressed in the present. Women have more privileges in the present, men have more responsibilities in the present.

SentientApe · 2018-08-16T23:52:14+00:00

- Not specifically. I avoid anyone who isn't intellectually honest with themselves. I don't care about your skin tone, your gender, or your sexual preferences.

- Yes. I was married for 10 years and one thing was extremely evident: men are required to learn how to communicate to women, women are not required to learn how to communicate with men. (Societal requirements)

- Yes. I cannot stand drama. Not emotional avoidance, but intentional drama. It pains me to be exposed to it.

- Both. The inherit traits have been fostered and reinforced by social conditioning.

- Yes/No. Yes there are societies that have existed that have surpressed women, and there are still some at present. Do I believe that current Western culture is classified under the 'suppressing' catagory, no, not even close.

-- (I'm choosing an extreme here for affect) Shari'a Law is extremely patriarchal and anti-women, but yet Saudi Arabia has a seat on the UN Human Rights council.

-- In all Western societies, women have exactly the same rights as men, and have more political power. The fact that you are being told otherwise is a fallacy designed to destabilize and distract the voting base.

Supernumiphone · 2018-08-17T00:44:24+00:00

Do you avoid lesbians?

I don't avoid women and I don't know why I would treat lesbians any differently.

Did you learn anything from female/male relationships that were beneficial although painful?

Sure, the same as all of life experience.

Are you avoiding pain?

Not primarily, but perhaps to some extent.

Do you think it's just women's conditioning rather than inherent traits?

I think that it is rooted in inherent traits although their expression is certainly shaped by their environment.

Do you agree that women have been suppressed by men in the past, if you don't agree in the present?

Men and women both had to suppress their natural impulses and drives to a much greater degree in the past than today. Who got the worse end of the deal is debatable and is probably dependent on the individual in question. As for today it's not an ideal situation for either gender but women have surpassed men in enough areas that an argument could be made that women have shifted into a superior position overall.

Respectful, healthy women exist.

You will no doubt get disagreement from some MGTOW on this, but not from me. It is certainly true in my view. A man doesn't have to disagree in order to choose to go his own way. There are some who accept it but still feel that relationships are more trouble than they're worth. Whether it's the risks he must expose himself to, or just the sacrifices required.

There are significant, fundamental differences between men and women. In my view in order to make a relationship truly work you need two people who both are aware of this and are willing to put in the ongoing effort to work through those differences and find common ground. Easy to say, hard to find. For some men the sacrifices and compromises are not worth it.

I appreciate women and value the female friends I have, but would not be willing to compromise on myself and the life I've chosen to be with any of them. Maybe some day I will meet a "unicorn" about whom I will feel differently, but I'm not holding my breath.

UmbrellalikeWetness · 2018-08-17T01:35:44+00:00

Doesn't matter if NAWALTs exist, because all of us live in the legal framework so heavily biased in favor of them.

chart6653 · 2018-08-17T01:29:37+00:00

OP, first of all, as a moderate MGTOW (Love the company of women), I sincerely appreciate the thoughtful, thought-provoking and respectful post. It is very interesting to hear the perspective of a centered woman.

I'm not trying to speak for the whole group, but for many, I'd say it is just simply a risk-reward thing. Many feel that 1) The chances of meeting a true NAWALT are very slim and 2) the potential catastrophic downside for men if a marriage goes south is too great. It's just a question of low probability for the effort, with a severe potential downside.

LittleMissAfrodite · 2018-08-17T02:43:45+00:00

Hey Girl~

Glad to see other women here too. It's very nice to see your perspective and I'm happy your able to have a reasonable conversation about such sensitive topics.

I self identify as AWALT so it might be nice to bounce thoughts off of one another. I wanted to pick your brain a bit.

What do you think AWALT means? If you've been watching redpill or mgtow videos you have probably heard the term. What are your thoughts on it?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "respectful and healthy?"

Do you believe you are respectful and healthy? If so what does that mean? Does that mean that you will not act in your best interest if acting on that best interest would hurt a man you are in a relationship with?

reduction-deduction · 2018-08-17T05:43:24+00:00

This is why there is this sub, because unlike the big MGTOW sub, we dont believe that women are "all like that" - being evil is not a female trait only. And sure, guys respect women that respect themselves too. This what women should learn from other women, but most of the times they dont - abusive and asshole guys feed on women that dont respect themselves enough to say "enough is enough". I know that, because in eastern Europe such a phenomena occurs often.

Do you think it's just women's conditioning rather than inherent traits?

i did not get that

Do you agree that women have been suppressed by men in the past, if you don't agree in the present?

I dont know what about your country, but i am from the USSR and back then women were not at ALL suppressed. Before, in the Russian Empire, women would know their "place", but it was all patriarchical and i doubt they thought that this is all was wrong.

If by saying "suppression" you mean treating them like shit, sure!

But maybe you mean something else...

Chill-BL · 2018-08-17T13:10:06+00:00

Let me mess up this specific view of yours:

Women respect men who respect themselves. Respectful, healthy women exist. I do think what you say when you talk about women (manipulative, make-up wearing, superficial, out to get you, etc.) can exist, but really it's a human issue, aka sociopathy and other health disorders linked to the brain (both genetics and environment) and trauma. Men can also be sociopaths; many women already know this, unfortunately.

It's one simple thing, leverage.

We are first and foremost animals.

The leverage of the female of the species is to be the incubator of the next generation. (yeah sounds fucked up I know, world is no fairytale)

The leverage of the male is the ability to survive.

Male leverage has been stripped over the past hundreds years. So for women there is generally not much reason to settle down and procreate unless she finds someone that is able to provide better than she herself can (the infamous career women) or can provide better than the state can (welfare single mothers).

This coincide with the strong independent female sentiment that goes around. This will happen every time society has an excess of resources that gets distributed around.

There is no women around that is willing to give over leverage. (of course not, I wouldn't either). It's the same for companies and employees.

people always have been messed up and shitty. The environment will make clear how much leverage a person has in society.

This is why young beautiful women has A LOT of leverage and why a young male has practically 0 leverage in society. But as time progresses her looks subsides and with that her leverage vice versa a young (fairly smart) guy will have built some wealth and starts to become more valuable as time goes on.

It's a horrible shock for women to find out that finally they get old and want to settle down, that nobody is willing to. For a guy it's the other way around he is shocked that he has no value until his has built himself towards a position of value. The MGTOW sentiment is that when he gets to that position of value. he isn't interested anymore in sharing that wealth with anyone except the ones he wants to share it with. Because of societies structure.

It's going to bumpy road the coming years though.

BangkokBeats · 2018-08-17T09:11:40+00:00

I think everyone is different as far as I’m aware MGTOW isn’t a movement it’s just guys swearing off marriage and long term relationships to look after their own interests.

My answers to your questions:

1) No I’ve got a few friends who are lesbians, peoples sexuality doesn’t concern me one way or the other.

2) From previous relationships I’ve learned I’m expected to put in a hell of a lot more than I get out both financially and emotionally. I’ve also seen enough guys bankrupted by divorce to know marriage is a stupid idea, you don’t need to touch a fire to know it’s gonna burn.

3) A certain amount of pain is worth it if the reward is great enough, when there’s no possible beneficial outcome any amount of pain or effort is worth avoiding.

4) I think it’s societal conditioning, women are sold a dream however in real life it’s tough for men to live up to those expectations. Also when the consequences for divorce for a woman are that she often gets a financial payout and sympathy from her friends there’s no incentive for her to take the rough with the smooth.

5) I agree with the suffrage movement, everyone should have equal rights regardless of age race or gender. However women now have equal rights, modern feminism is about identity politics, seeking special treatment and generally just man hating.

Also historically women have had a pretty cushy ride, men have always done the dirty and dangerous jobs.

Dissentient · 2018-08-17T10:00:37+00:00

As far as I know, I have never even talked to a lesbian. I have no opinion of them.
I have never been in a relationship.
Who doesn't?
I think that all humans, regardless of gender, aren't trustworthy. More in this comment.
I don't think that women were suppressed "by men". Both men and women were oppresed by human biology and society. In the same way that a woman couldn't do what a man could, men couldn't step out of their role either. Women enforced gender roles as much as men did. I also wouldn't say that men had it better. They may have had more opportunities to improve their life, but I wouldn't say that an average man had a better life than an average woman.

MTP2148 · 2018-08-17T18:45:35+00:00

I've always got along with the handful if lesbians I've known (from work mostly)
Yes, do not have romantic relationships with women (or any one else). Do not actively seek out any relationships with women, only extremely rarely with men.
Generally, I have found that all interaction with humans, and women in particular, eventually lead to discomfort, dissapointment, awkwardness, sadness, and yes, pain. It is always my intent to avoid feeling any of these things or causing them in other people.
I think women's and men's behaviors is mostly an evolutionary species survival/reproductive strategy. Some behaviors are culturally learned.
In the past, women and men behaved mostly based on evolutionary derived on practical gender roles that are most likely to enhance human species survival rates.

WolfgangBreitweit · 2018-08-21T03:20:41+00:00

Wymyn are making men bitter. Yes. And now what? What does it mean?

I don’t understand this pseudo argument to begin with. If you’ve burnt yourself in a fire and someone tells you not to give up and reach into it again, you would say that this person is a psychopath. If the same person would want you to believe, that not all fires are the same, you would say that this person is a malicious psychopath.

If all men would start to beat up women and raping them (not like in 50 shades of grey, but more gangbang-like with all the violence you can think of), wouldn’t women stay away from men? And which men would come up with the silly argument, that women are just bitter?

99.99% of women would immediately extract all resources of a guy without hesitation and fake their feelings for him to have an easy way. Only 0.002% of women have ever being raped (you can substract 70% of that being false accusations), but the activists are talking about a “rape culture”. Wymyn in their arguments are so absurd, there is not even a word for it.

raptor017 · 2018-08-30T19:45:06+00:00

I can't avoid people that I don't like, but I can sure as hell can make my experience with them less annoying for me. But no, I don't avoid people on the basis of their sex, gender or whatnot. It's the expression of these things that I judge people on. Their effort is what matters to me.
Women are best treated like children. This isn't supposed to be demeaning, it's just what I have learned throughout my 18 years on this planet. In the female mind, there exist this notion that "they deserve more". Keep your eyes peeled for commercials that end with "because you're worth it". It's fact that women make up the vast majority of consumers as well. Coincidence? No, women are indeed more prone to consumerism. They think they deserve something just by virtue of existing. Women cannot communicate, just like children. They will tell you shit like "I don't want something", when in reality they want you to man up and still do something for them. Because it's supposed to show that you care. In conclusion - women think they are the prize on the basis of their sex.
There is no pain to avoid. We are men, we can only adapt to the hands that we are dealt. If the laws do not favor us in marriage, then we will find other ways to be happy. There were ways to be happy before, when marriage was a good deal. There are still ways today. Perhaps you are talking about drama? Women are drama queens. They like attention. My solution is the same - by reacting strongly to female drama, they enjoy it. Indifference and ZFG keeps them in line.
All of us are slaves to our biological imperatives. Nature gave man his sex drive, because else we wouldn't be here. Testosterone can cause all sorts of problems, but it is needed in order to be strong and rational. It takes a very zen person in order to look deep within, look pass his programming, and forge his inner nirvana. Can women do the same? I don't think so. It takes a very cerebral person to even be self aware enough to question their purpose in life. I see women on social media complain about how their lives are miserable because they always get pumped and dumped by bad boys. They lament about the pattern, yet they cannot break it. They cannot break it, for secretly, if they looked deep inside, they would realize that attractive bad boys are what they want.
If I were to pull a Qin solider from the warring states period to the present, what would he have to say? He would say that his life is kinda shitty. He fears for his life. But secretly, he enjoys the thrill of war too. He loves the rush he gets when he charges with his brothers, blowing through the enemy and leaving a trail of destruction and waste. He is "oppressed" by the state, yet he still enjoys it. I believe everyone was like that in the past. The state may have been a tyrannical presence in their lives, but everyone was still content. Now, I think women have the upper hand in reproductive rights and marriage. Men only exist to pay taxes and support women. I buy into the gynocentric society narrative.

Respectful women do exist. But those are unicorns.

Title	From A Woman
Author	BlueAscetic
Upvotes	0
Comments	73
Date	August 16, 2018 10:40 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/97wxcm/from_a_woman/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/from-a-woman.815159 https://theredarchive.com/post/815159

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