Apparently the problem with rape trials is that the accused is permitted due process. Includes the obligatory "a 'misplaced belief' that false accusations of rape are commonplace may be undermining po

Volundarkvioa · 2013-04-13T22:03:50+00:00

That's tragic that the girl committed suicide, and I'm sure that the rape really did happen if she would go that far due to what happened in court (I could be wrong, but then again I wasn't there nor on at the trial)...But you can't let something like this all of a sudden change the way we look at these trials.

Yes, it's difficult to go to the police and to report the issue; we hate being weak, we hate being victims (at least most of us, not necessarily everyone), and so seeking help especially when it means looking at your (alleged) perpetrator has got to be insanely difficult. But we have to remember it's not just about the victim; it's also about the accused. We have to give them as much credit as we do the victim and figure out who's the real rapist or if the rape actually ever occurred.

Trials aren't meant to be easy though; they're meant to be difficult, and for a good reason. Someone's well-being, whether it's their freedom, their financial well-being, or a combination of both, are also up at the gallows as much as the accuser. We need to ensure the right people are tried to the fullest extent of the law, even if that means it will be more difficult for some people. We can't give special exemptions on the grounds that it might break someone. We can try to be more caring (e.g. calming the victim down, getting them a therapist in between the trial dates, etc.), but we can't become more lenient in the hopes that it might mean less people will be crushed from recalling the events of the crimes.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-04-13T22:47:41+00:00

Theresa May said it was necessary to see if the system could be improved to ensure "victims feel they will be believed when they come forward".

The only way to do this is to assume their accusations are true.

In other words to get rid of the assumption of innocence which forms the bedrock of our legal system.

typhonblue · 2013-04-14T02:11:59+00:00

And how many young men commit suicide after being raped because they had no where to turn?

But we don't hear about them because... well... they had no where to turn.

The worst problems are always the ones society doesn't see.

oneiorosgrip · 2013-04-14T01:56:27+00:00

Remember this type of advocacy the next time you see a feminist arguing that false allegations are a problem because of patriarchy.

CMOS222 · 2013-04-14T01:39:43+00:00

Author's examples don't support her solution.

She doesn't offer any statistical evidence that all rape victims are so traumatized during police investigations or trials.

No evidence that she checked to see if there are any rape victims who were subject to similar treatment and did not suffer any ill effects.

Responses to situations like this are always going to be subjective. How is any police officer or defense attorney to know their questions may traumatize someone into committing suicide?

Her examples may call for rules for more nuanced treatment or cross-examination of people who have filed a rape complaint, but not for a reduction in the rights of the accused to due process.

jimmy982 · 2013-04-14T07:56:28+00:00

I just had a thought about this...

It is most troubling to me that there are so many people commenting on this article that seem to want to get rid of the adversarial legal system and due process. Since it is the responsibility of the police to gather evidence, the judge to enforce the law, the lawyers to advocate for their side, and the JURY to decide the case. Is it not slightly troubling that there are so many people, who may end up on an jury at some point, that are uninterested in listening to what a defense might have to say simply because it is difficult to listen to?

Am I looking too far into this? Or is it that scary?

Imnotmrabut · 2013-04-14T08:42:33+00:00

I find the Psychology of this section interesting - it's made to seen rational but it's not.

Other rape and sexual assault victims who have tried, with various degrees of success, to take cases to court are familiar with the distressing experience of having their evidence torn apart. Usually when you report a crime, you expect to be believed. Victims of burglary do not have to prove that they have been burgled or to justify their behaviour before the burglary. With rape and sexual assault allegations, victims still find themselves subjected to hostile questioning.

1) The evidence does not belong to the witness - it actually belongs to the Crown Prosecution Service - that is why the court papers read "Regina Vs Blah Blah!" - the witness may be having their experience questioned but they do not own the evidence or the prosecution. That may seem picky, but it actually makes a massive difference to perceptions. It is the Crown/CPS's choice to prosecute and they present the evidence that is disputed by the defence.... and if the CPS are either Incompetent in preparing cases - else doing Just what the law allows for all other people, then fudging the issue and demanding less of the law and legal system is not a good fix!

2) This may seem a balanced comment "Victims of burglary do not have to prove that they have been burgled or to justify their behaviour before the burglary.", but in fact it's false. If you report a burglary you DO have to prove it has happened - that property is missing and even has value. Otherwise, I'm sorry, there would be one hell of an issue of just Insurance Fraud. They do also have to Justify behaviours - did you leave the property secure, when and how did the items get insured - Oh you a burglar alarm and exactly who has the pass code, how often is it changed .... In the UK when a crime is reported there police investigate. Thy don't assume that the report is true, they start from the position that it may be true and then asses and if necessary secure Evidence. The only thing that seems to be at stake here is the ownership of Victim Status.

3) "With rape and sexual assault allegations, victims still find themselves subjected to hostile questioning." - so cross examination only occurs in rape cases? Probing cross examination only happens in rape cases? Hell - I've been in and out of court for decades, providing legal assistance - victim and witness support - as a Witness and even as the victim. I've seen the issues - and also in the UK if the person giving evidence is So distressed they can ask the judge to intervene..... In fact Judges have and are TRAINED to handle sensitive cases. hell tey are even trained in recognising Body Language so that even when a person is saying they are fine and their body language is screaming the opposite the judge acts to adjourn rather than continue.

What I see here is not a tale of tragedy and concern over the death of Frances Andrade - but I do see the whiff of Cynical Political exploitation and manipulation.

I have also recently heard rumblings that Statistics are going to be used to prove patriarchal bias against female rape victims. It seems that after decades of work in getting male rape even recognised, Police forces trained in the matter, victims supported and CPS prosecutors up to speed ... when a case of male rape is brought to court the convictions rates are far far higher than for female rape. So it seems of the face of it that the boys are getting preferential treatment and everyone is being mean to the girls.

Nope - Far far fewer cases of male rape even get near a court and the ones that do generally have such water tight evidence that a child could prosecute and win.

If Part Time Political Pundits like Amelia Gentleman looked at the big picture they would see a great deal more that is at issue - but of course that would also mean writing in a style where facts are kept straight and she even known who owns what - and what gets done with it!

Thisismynetlife · 2013-04-13T21:50:30+00:00

The problem with rape trials are those pesky rights. Those things are always getting in the way. I'm glad we have been systematically removing them from specific demographics within our society. Lets make the whole witch hunt process a lot smoother.

CrossHook · 2013-04-14T00:46:43+00:00

We oughta start a campaign where we all falsely accuse random women of rape just to showcase how broken the system is.

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