First time in the work force, having some trouble adjusting. How do I appropriately handle office talk about sexual assault, rape, and sexism without getting defensive?

avantvernacular · 2013-08-14T20:38:58+00:00

I would say to them pretty much something similar to what you said to us:

"I am growing increasingly uncomfortable over how casually I am lumped in with the perpetrators of those offenses. I feel as though I am being pigeonholed simply because I have a penis, I constantly find myself on the defensive because of that treatment. It's just exhausting, it's disheartening, and it's unfair. While I respect your intentions and am not trying to keep you from talking about what are obviously very difficult issues, I would appreciate it if you would adjust your language such as to not be so hostile to me. When you disparage men as a collective you also disparage me."

At which point they will either say:

"You know what you're right, /u/StarOfAthenry. I never really took the time to think about how when I say things like this I may be hurting a lot of people who don't deserve it. It really is unfair and I'm sorry and I'll try choose my words more carefully." In which case everything should be fine and you move on with your life.

or

"Whatever, you're just a stupid man, you don't know anything you rapist shitlord scum! Try not to rape anyone on the way to the water cooler you piece of shit!" In which case you work with some ignorant bigoted assholes and should not give a moment's pause about reporting them to HR.

Best of luck.

guywithaccount · 2013-08-14T20:54:32+00:00

Find another job.

That's not what you want to hear, and I'll probably get downvoted for saying it, but you're basically asking how you, as a man with little or no peer support, can change a man-hating, dishonest, authoritarian feminist culture, and the short answer is that you can't, and you'll suffer for trying.

If you really, really want to stay in your field, then yes, shut up and keep your head down.

StarOfAthenry · 2013-08-14T21:46:58+00:00

Why is sexual assault being discussed in the office? This isn't normal office chat. Is it shop talk, somehow relevant to processing college applications? Or is it somebody's idea of an appropriate conversation at the watercooler?

In a hostile environment, you may have to follow a principle of "no casual conversation in the workplace": if it's not relevant to getting the job done, you don't speak about it, and don't participate when other people are having that conversation. Be boring and polite, get your stuff done, and do your chitchatting and socializing outside the office. It's a pity if it comes to that, but at least you're keeping your own record clean.

StarOfAthenry · 2013-08-15T07:42:02+00:00

1) Ignore all the people here telling you to quit or find another job. You work for the money, so unless you have a crack at your dream job, stay here.

2) Don't fucking talk about it at work. The cards are stacked against you, because you're outnumbered and on their turf. If they don't respect your wish to not talk or hear about it, then you can go to HR.

3) You say there is nothing to report to HR, but there is obviously a hostile work environment here. Just remember, HR is there to protect the company, not your feelings. They know that a man can't cause any trouble if they railroad you, so don't get out of line unless you have a good case to fuck them.

4) DON'T FUCKING TALK ABOUT THIS SHIT AT WORK. Seriously, there are like 20 bazillion other things to talk about at work besides rape. Change the subject whenever it comes up, you don't even have to be discreeet about changing it.

giegerwasright · 2013-08-14T23:27:22+00:00

Quit. Explain to HR on your way out that you believe that your coworkers create an environment that is hostile to your gender. Don't pursue grievance. Don't try to retaliate or capture remunerations. Just bow out with dignity and let your coworkers wonder.

2013-08-14T20:32:36+00:00

The traditional route for most office jobs would be to talk to (in rough order of preference) them/your supervisor/some other higher up/HR and let them know that the conversations are making you uncomfortable. If you can handle it with them directly, that's great, but it doesn't have to get to the level of filing a formal report before the higher ups can act on it.

The viability of those routes may vary depending on how likely you think you are to be burned in a giant wicker version of your college's mascot for not agreeing with feminism.

rightsbot · 2013-08-14T20:22:17+00:00

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CACKENBOOLS · 2013-08-14T22:41:04+00:00

Just describe the average politics of the town and the college. Separate you and your opinions from it and don't talk about how you feel about it. It is technically irrelevant, so you would even be doing a better job in that sense. Read some surveys and follow the politics.

Actually I'm not sure of the job description. Are you the person talking to prospective students? This is in town or out of town?

Mythandros · 2013-08-15T17:31:57+00:00

I'm not in higher education but I work in a big company with a lot of competition internally. (Sexual also.)

Just don't engage in the conversation. If you are speaking with a feminist about these topics AT WORK, no good can come of it.

If it feels like you are being pigeonholed, you likely are, which negates your chances of a discussion on this subject coming up with any positive result.

Keep it professional and just don't engage your co-workers on this topic, there is no benefit for you and you risk being pigeonholed further if you say something a feminist doesn't like. Since you are a man, any words coming out of your mouth offend feminists, no matter what they are. That is how "reasonable" they are.

SayHeyItsAThrowaway · 2013-08-21T13:55:08+00:00

I know it's been a week since you posted this, but if I can chime in:

This might be a hot topic now, but surely over time there will be other topics that get more attention in office conversations. Right now, every campus is thinking about the students coming back and new students coming in and orientation and all the student affairs issues that are at the fore. I'm thinking this won't be true all year.

A lot of admissions staff are young and in their first jobs. It's a high-energy, high-burnout field that attracts a lot of new grads who are out to change the world. They are impulsive and earnest and that's fantastic for the energy they bring to the job. Sadly, it also has some drawbacks which you've just run into: they may fail to be thoughtful about how even the most cherished, progressive campus causes can harmfully generalize and stereotype. Maybe you can push them to be smarter about that in the future, but now isn't the time. Wait until they and you are more settled in to the job and each other.

In the meantime, hang in there. Unobtrusively extricate yourself from any conversation that goes down this road. If people inquire, you can calmly say "I said my piece on this earlier" without seeming mad.

SeaRavenTX · 2013-08-22T17:26:52+00:00

I am in the exact same situation and this is my second school. This happened at the previous institution to me as well. The last place i worked at had the dynamic of attractive women with active imaginations who always thought the worst of men, albeit even good men like me. I was the only man there and here. That mixed with penis-envious lesbians and women who thought they were God's gift-- I was the villain because of my gender. It is like the twilight zone when i hear the gossip and how they think. Somehow, i am starting to think this is part of the identity of being outnumbered. These people are a different species.

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