Good statistics

ElisaSKy · 2023-03-21T18:14:06+00:00

Well, the NISVS studies by the CDC are always a good place to start.

They have the advantage of 1) being official (people tend to be more accepting of official numbers), 2) be explicit in how they exclude "made to penetrate" from rape, and 3) find nigh identical numbers of women being "raped" and men being "made to penetrate" in the last 12 months.

Also, I think it's a study by Widom and Morris that found out that, by specifically selecting for people whom have a known history of sexual abuse, only 64% of women and 16% of men disclose that abuse.

If I assume that the "lifetime" statistics in the NISVS study are these 64% and 16%, respectively, I find out nigh identical numbers for rape.

WeEatBabies · 2023-03-21T18:18:13+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#Gender_symmetry

" of 11,370 heterosexual U.S. adults aged 18 to 28 found that 24% of all relationships had some violence. Of those relationships, 49.7% of them had reciprocal violence. In relationships without reciprocal violence, women committed 70% of all violence. However, men were more likely to inflict injury than women.[56]"

Also please mention something almost never talked about which : Violence by proxy.

Example : Women use the proxy violence of state to inflict misery on men. They either start a fight and hope the men fights back and because of the Duluth model she will be considered the victim. Or she simply inflict bruises upon herself and claims domestic abuse.

This results in the man being evicted from his home and sometimes jailed. Also possible is loss of employment and alienation from his kids.

Women are incentivized to do this for more child support / alimony money.

Also mention that feminists made sure that those statistic rarely see the light of day by calling bomb threats and having researchers who look into the topic lose their tenure as professors : https://www.instagram.com/p/CfeFR0pNeQE/

beleidigtewurst · 2023-03-21T18:39:16+00:00

One interesting case, how education works: boys are getting worse marks for the same work:

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-31751672

What society sees (and cares about) is, that in formal tests, girls performs "worse" (as, guess what, there is no sexist teacher to lower boy's marks). What do we do? Try to make it more comfortable for girls, maybe it's better if all are given more time:

https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-university-gives-students-extra-time-to-finish-exams-2018-1

At the moment boys in the US and many other countries are getting down to being 40% of the college students.

The war against boys, the hateful anti-boy policies based on fraudulent statistics (girls were ahead back then, contrary to claims made), were called out by Christina Sommers 2 decades ago:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/05/the-war-against-boys/304659/

There is more, but that's enough from me, I think.

Background_Duck2932 · 2023-03-21T18:40:05+00:00

Just a side note I always feel the need to mention: if you do this, I just want to remind you to not bring up this information in a way that sounds like it dismisses women's issues. That's an issue that we can easily fall into by accident or otherwise when trying to make a point for men. I don't know how exactly you should do it, but try to make sure that you get the point across that this isn't to look away from women's issues, but to look at men's issues alongside women's issues, or to even look at some issues as not gender issues, but human issues.

AvailableCandidate89 · 2023-03-21T18:14:26+00:00

Use the side bar and search on duckduckgo with prompts like this: "site:reddit.com/r/mensrights <topic you want info about>"

r/MensRightsLinks is another great resource to search through

NurturedByNature_0_0 · 2023-03-21T18:36:44+00:00

Male suicide would also be a really good piece to include, especially considering its something difficult for people to just "laugh at" because... who doesn't want men to commit suicide less and its very easy to find tons of stats that show its an undeniable issue.

duhhhh · 2023-03-21T20:59:07+00:00

My rape copypasta

The statistical definition of rape is controlled by feminists that deny men can be raped by women. Feminists actively block acknowledgment of males being heterosexual rape victims, support services for them, and laws to protect raped men and boys.

For statistical reporting, rape has been carefully defined as forced penetration of the victim in most of the world. Please listen to this feminist professor Mary P Koss explain that a woman raping a man isn't rape. Hear her explain in her own voice just a few years ago - https://clyp.it/uckbtczn. I encourage you to listen to what she is saying. (Really. Listen to it! Think about it from a man's perspective.)

She is considered the foremost expert on sexual violence in the US. She is the one that started the 1 in 4 American college women is sexually assaulted myth by counting all sorts of things the "victims" didn't. A man misinterpreting a situation going in for a kiss and then backing off when she pulls back, puts up her hand, or turns her cheek is counted as a sexual assault on a woman even if she doesn't think it was. As you hear in her own words the woman's studies professor and trusted expert that literally wrote the book on measuring prevalence of sexual violence does not call a woman drugging and riding a man bareback rape ... or even label it sexual assault ... it is merely "unwanted contact"

You see she has been saying this for decades and was instrumental in creating the methodologies most (including the US and many other government agencies around the world) use for gathering rape statistics. E.g.

Detecting the Scope of Rape : A Review of Prevalence Research Methods. Author: Mary P. Koss. Journal of Interpersonal Violence Volume: 8 Issue: 2 Dated: (June 1993) Page: 206

Although consideration of male victims is within the scope of the legal statutes, it is important to restrict the term rape to instances where male victims were penetrated by offenders. It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.

Src: http://boysmeneducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Koss-1993-Detecting-the-Scope-of-Rape-a-review-of-prevalence-research-methods-see-p.-206-last-paragraph.pdf

She is an advisor to the CDC, FBI, Congress, and researchers around the world and promoting the idea that men cannot be raped by women. There was a proposal to explicitly include forced envelopment in the latest FBI update to the definition of rape but after a closed door meeting with her and N.O.W. lobbiests, it mysteriously disappeared. She has many many followers and fellow researchers that follow her methodology and quote her studies. That is where most people get the idea rape is just a man on woman crime. Men are fairly rarely penetrated and it is almost always by another man.

Most people talking about sexual violence refer to the "rape" (penetrated) numbers as influenced by Mary Koss's methodologies, but in the US the CDC also gathered the data for "made to penetrate" (enveloped) in the 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015 NISVS studies.

As an example lets look at the 2011 survey numbers: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm

an estimated 1.6% of women (or approximately 1.9 million women) were raped in the 12 months before taking the survey

and

The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate.

vs

an estimated 1.7% of men were made to penetrate a perpetrator in the 12 months preceding the survey

and

Characteristics of Sexual Violence Perpetrators For female rape victims, an estimated 99.0% had only male perpetrators. In addition, an estimated 94.7% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape had only male perpetrators. For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. The majority of male rape victims (an estimated 79.3%) had only male perpetrators. For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims had only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (an estimated 82.6%), sexual coercion (an estimated 80.0%),

NISVS 2010 showed in the past 12 months, 1.1% of men were made to penetrate and 1.1% of women were raped. Table 2.1 & 2.2 on pages 18/19.

NISVS 2011 showed in the past 12 months, 1.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.6% of women were raped. Table 1 on page 5.

NISVS 2012 showed in the past 12 months, 1.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.0% of women were raped. Table A.1 & A.5 on pages 217/222.

NISVS 2015 showed in the past 12 months, 0.7% of men were made to penetrate & 1.2% of women were raped. Table 1 & 2 on pages 15/16.

Varies a bit from year to year, but pretty even overall. In both cases the four year annual percentages add up to five. The numbers for perpetrators vary a little from year to year too. Something like 79-84% of made to penetrate (nonconsensual envelopment) victims are victimized by women. Something like 96-99% of rape (nonconsensual penetration) victims are victimized by men. So in the 2010s, it averages out that a typical year has ~60% men & ~40% women as perpetrators of nonconsensual sex outside prisons rather than the 99:1 ratio discussed.

But since made to penetrate is not rape, the narrative is that men are rapists and women are victims and boys/men that are victims are victims of men. Therefore most of the gender studies folks create programs to teach men not to rape (e.g. /r/science/comments/3rmapx/science_ama_series_im_laura_salazar_associate/). Therefore there is justification for having gendered rape support services which means almost none for males victimized by females. These misleading stats are ammo to tell men to shut up about rape because 1 in 5 women are raped vs "only" 1 in 71 men and dismiss raped men because men are one group "nearly all the men were raped by other men" so somehow raped men are to blame because they are men...

If you don't like CDC data:

Scientific American: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known

A recent study of youth found, strikingly, that females comprise 48 percent of those who self-reported committing rape or attempted rape at age 18-19.

The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/

a 2014 study of 284 men and boys in college and high school found that 43 percent reported being sexually coerced, with the majority of coercive incidents resulting in unwanted sexual intercourse. Of them, 95 percent reported only female perpetrators.

and

National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions found in a sample of 43,000 adults little difference in the sex of self-reported sexual perpetrators. Of those who affirmed that they had ‘ever forced someone to have sex with you against their will,’ 43.6 percent were female and 56.4 percent were male.”

Time: http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers

when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).

If my information is not enough, try reading these five threads by problem_redditor with lots more studies and references.

/r/MensRights/comments/oc2yp0/some_sources_on_sexual_abuse_of_men_and_boys_part/

Just maybe, rape isn't a gendered issue and we should stop treating it like one. But if we acknowledge that, then we would have to point the blame at "rapists", rather than "men".

Isn't just the US.

Feminists lobbied against gender neutral rape laws in India, so women are not rapists and men victimized by women are not rape victims. https://www.timesofindia.com/india/Activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms

So a woman physically forcing sex on a man is not a rape in India, but a man breaking an engagement after having sex with his fiancee is a rape.

Israeli feminists were concerned if a woman raping a man was recognized by law, a man could threaten to make false accusations against the woman after the man raped her in order to keep her from reporting. Apparently false accusations are a problem for women, so they fixed this by blocking the legislation that would have made rape a gender neutral crime.

https://m.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape

Nepal feminists also blocked legislation there ...

Women’s rights activists had criticised the draft ordinance saying it wasn’t empathetic towards the plight of the victims. They said that having a provision saying even men could be victims of rape could could further weaken the women rape victims’ fight for justice.

https://kathmandupost.com/national/2020/12/11/ordinance-amends-law-on-rape-but-fails-to-recognise-rape-of-boy-child-and-sexual-minorities

Even if you only care about women, you should still stop women from raping because the majority of men convicted of raping women were sexually violated by adult women when they were boys. Multiple studies in the US, UK, and Canada have shown this. Around 10 of them cited here.

http://empathygap.uk/?p=1993#_Toc498111528

So women not raping, and rape by women being acknowledged as traumatic and treated with compassion, would probably stop a lot of women from getting raped in the future. That should matter if the goal is to stop women from getting raped rather than to demonize men.

Standard-Broccoli107 · 2023-03-21T21:04:50+00:00

This isnt what you want info on but I would unge you to not do this. Depending on who scores you this topic can worsen your score significantly.

After you have your gcse (and have gotten employment/into uni) then you can be far more vocal.

dibberdott · 2023-03-22T01:42:23+00:00

Just a small digression, I discovered at the age of 59, 63 now, I was not my Daddies bio son. Cool but not the issue, on some group sites about non parental events. There was a shit ton on the NPE's that discovered they was rape babies. I mean way to many to read about. The rage of DNA sites like 24andme, Family tree, and Ancestry have changed the face of paternity. Rapers being discovered, family secrets being unearthed. Mommy's keeping precieved shame under wraps for decades either by rape or infidelity. There might be stats on the this, I will try to find some.

Session-Special · 2023-03-21T18:53:42+00:00

I would step off the Grape stuff and jump into the homeless issue - its way easier for stats, and you will have more data points to use.

I would use the false grape allegations as a ender in your argument series - as most emotional people have a tendency to throw the wall up and not listen at all.

DA - is the hardest because the data is whisper thin and finding anything is listed in few web areas.

My jump off point on this subject.

start point for raw data.

blueXcat · 2023-03-21T20:28:00+00:00

I consider Circumcision without consent to be rape, so 50% of American men are raped around birth

duhhhh · 2023-03-21T20:58:07+00:00

My DV copypasta

I simply wish we as a society look at gender neutral domestic violence data and provide gender neutral support instead of studies looking for violence against women only and providing help for women only, even to the detriment of women. The violence is pretty equal. The perception and resources are not due to feminists. Reality is women are slightly more likely to initiate physical violence and slightly more likely to be significantly injured during physical violence.

Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.

Src: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

Behind a paywall I have archived around, but Harvard research that women are more likely than men in starting or escalating domestic violence and those women are by far the women most likely to be injured in DV. That doesn't say all women injured are perpetrators themselves, but it does indicate the problem goes beyond the feminist/pop culture model of "violence against women".

It includes:

Almost 25% of the people surveyed — 28% of women and 19% of men — said there was some violence in their relationship. Women admitted perpetrating more violence (25% versus 11%) as well as being victimized more by violence (19% versus 16%) than men did. According to both men and women, 50% of this violence was reciprocal, that is, involved both parties, and in those cases the woman was more likely to have been the first to strike.

Read that one again and #BelieveWomen.

Src: http://archive.is/7vuUz

This is a long meta study that shows we've known domestic violence isn't gendered for decades. It is good analysis. It summarizes the results of dozens of studies across decades. Not ONE study. LOTS.

https://connect.springerpub.com/content/sgrpa/1/3/332 or the whole study here https://talkingback2restrainingorders.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/v71-straus_thirty-years-denying-evidence-pv_10.pdf

Popculture article -

https://thedailycounter.com/male-victims-of-domestic-violence-are-they-ignored/

Most domestic violence research today is research of "violence against women" from grants specifically looking for data on violence against women, not gender neutral research.

The rates of partner homicides didn't used to be that far apart. Then women got help and resources and the rate they killed their husbands dropped a lot. Men didn't get DV shelters they could use to protect their kids from their abuser without getting kidnapping charges giving the abuser an upper hand in custody, government funded help to allow them to get easy restraining orders, DV intervention public policy and programs that favored them, etc. Therefore the rate that husbands kill their wives hasn't dropped much. Maybe if we want to eliminate the desperate husbands in mutually abusive relationships killing their wives, we should give them better options. That would probably save a lot of women's lives just like doing it for women has saved a lot of mens lives.

"Gender Differences in Patterns and Trends in U.S. Homicide, 1976–2015" by James Alan Fox and Emma E. Fridel. The data comes from FBI statistics ("FBI's Supplementary Homicide Reports, SHR").

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/vio.2017.0016?journalCode=vio&

Here's part of the conclusion that the authors came to:

Among all the results already reported, perhaps the most striking and important surrounds the trends in intimate partner homicide, particularly in the context of ongoing efforts to curtail domestic violence. Some researchers argue that the reduction in male intimate partner victimization, a decline of nearly 60% over the past four decades, is because of an increase in the availability of social and legal interventions, liberalized divorce laws, greater economic independence of women, as well as a reduction in the stigma of being the victim of domestic violence. Although at an earlier time a woman may have felt compelled to kill her abusive spouse as her only defense, she now has more opportunities to escape the relationship through means such as protective orders and shelters (Dugan et al. 1999; Fox et al. 2012). As a tragic irony, the wider availability of support services for abused women did not appear to have quite the intended effect, at least through the 1980s, as only male victimization declined.

Here is a graph of intimate partner homicides by sex over the years from the study. Notice the trend for women as they got help vs men that didn't?

https://m.imgur.com/a/6Hx9dJt

God forbid we help men, even if it would save womens lives.

I suggest you read the Overview section of Erin Pizzey's wikipedia page or one of her books. She was the founder of Refuge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

She created the worlds first domestic violence shelters. After opening several for women in the UK, she suggested that men were being abused too (often by women staying in her shelters) and men needed a shelter too. She was then slandered, her kids were threatened, her dog was killed, bricks were thrown through her windows, and she was removed from the DV organization she founded (now known as Refuge which has just recently lost funding for harming male victims for decades). She fled the country for her childrens safety and became an outspoken DV activist and anti-feminist once they moved out on their own.

That's what happens when a DV advocate tries to help men.

In the US, VAWA replaced the gender neutral Family Violence Prevention and Services Act giving extra rights/services to women and taking services/rights away from men and children. The funding and laws became very gendered. Many of the laws in the act were challenged in court and had to be rewritten. The funding is still very gendered 25 years later, so... We have lots of grants to study "violence against women" rather than gender neutral domestic violence, lots of grants to develop separate programs to "teach men not to rape" and "teach women to report rape", lots of perpetrator intervention programs for men but none for women, lots of DV resources for women but almost none for males over 12.

duhhhh · 2023-03-21T21:00:48+00:00

Inability to opt out of parental responsibilities copypasta...

After Hermesmann v Seyer set the precedent, courts around the country have decided that male victims of women owe the perpetrators child support for decades, while other precedents (Roe v Wade) and laws (safe haven laws) generally allow female victims many options to get rid of the product of their rapes.

Hermesmann successfully argued that a woman is entitled to sue the father of her child for child support even if conception occurred as a result of a criminal act committed by the woman.

E.g.

Alabama man - https://law.justia.com/cases/alabama/court-of-appeals-civil/1996/2950025-0.html

Arizona boy - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/

California boy - https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1996-12-22-9612220045-story.html

Others in this paper "Victims with responsibilities" -https://lawpublications.barry.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=cflj

There are many others out there. I do not believe there has yet been a single case where a boy or man has gotten out of paying child support to an adult woman that statutory raped, raped, sperm jacked, etc.

The good news is that in recent years feminist lobbiests have pushed for laws to prevent rapists from getting child custody. Without custody the child wouldn't be raised by a rapist and the victim wouldn't owe child support. So the day that a male doesn't owe his perpetrator may be coming soon. The less good news is that just over half the states that passed these laws passed them as the feminist lobbiests proposed them - only preventing rapist fathers from getting custody. (https://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/parental-rights-and-sexual-assault.aspx)

Terrell v Torres recently set a precedent and invalidated a signed contract to let a woman use embryos created with her ex and have him owe child support.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2019/03/18/arizona-court-ruling-use-preserved-embryos-without-ex-husbands-consent-ruby-torres/3205867002/

Courts have ruled the same way in Illinois and the US supreme court agreed.

http://www.fathers4equality-australia.org/fathers-rights/woman-wins-custody-of-embryos-after-separation/

Courts have ruled the same way in a very similar situation in Italy.

https://www.ansa.it/canale_saluteebenessere/notizie/lei_lui/vita_di_coppia/2021/02/25/si-allimpianto-dellembrione-dellex-marito-anche-se-lui-dice-no_05230156-95ea-406a-aa7e-4e90cf2d7c93.html

Courts ruled the same way in yet another similar case in Israel.

https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%A9%D7%AA_%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%99

In several other cases women who forged her ex's signature to implant have been awarded child support from the unwilling father. E.G. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5687477/Ex-husband-ordered-pay-child-support-former-wife-forged-signature-undergo-IVF.html

Reproductive coersion of men is also an issue that would be drastically reduced with financial abortion.

approximately 10.4% (or an estimated 11.7 million) of men in the United States reported ever having an intimate partner who tried to get pregnant when they did not want to or tried to stop them from using birth control

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_coercion

American talk shows for women encourage women to stop birth control without telling their partner with the applause of their audiences.

https://web.archive.org/web/20211220203706/https://youtube.com/watch?v=5CNHwhHWPoQ

What about IVF with sperm taken from a condom without the man's consent?

https://www.mommyish.com/woman-steals-ex-boyfriends-sperm-has-twins-sues-for-child-support-836/

How about when they only engage in oral sex which should have no pregnancy risk?

https://rollingout.com/2014/02/04/woman-uses-sperm-oral-sex-get-pregnant-force-man-pay-child-support/

How about court orders mandating men give their wife sperm so they can impregnate themselves during divorce proceedings?

https://theprint.in/judiciary/court-orders-man-to-donate-sperm-to-estranged-wife-who-says-no-time-for-2nd-marriage/255215/

Financial abortion would solve all the financial issues for victimized males and remove financial incentives for women to do these things, but many pro-choice folks immediately start making pro-life talking points that if he didn't want a kid he should have used a condom or kept it in his pants.

Financial abortion is about bodily autonomy. No out for child support forces a man to spend years of his life working to pay for a child he does not want. If he loses his job and is unable to pay, he will lose his travel documents (drivers license/passport) and be locked in a cage.

1 in 8 men in South Carolina jails are there for failure to pay child support. They are not given court appointed lawyers until they are $10k behind and most are arrested and lose their job way before that limit making it extremely difficult to pay.

Src: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/20/us/skip-child-support-go-to-jail-lose-job-repeat.html

In the US,

66 percent of all child support not paid by fathers is due to an inability to come up with the money

Src: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-myth-of-the-deadbeat-_b_4745118

Mothers owing child support are more likely to not pay fathers than visa versa, but women are rarely jailed for it.

we found that 32 percent of custodial fathers didn't receive any of the child support that had been awarded to them compared to 25 percent of custodial moms

Src: https://www.npr.org/2015/03/01/389945311/who-fails-to-pay-child-support-moms-at-a-higher-rate-than-dads

But women aren't sent to jail at nearly the same rates for failure to live up to their obligations.

Based on national data, if incarceration for non-payment of child support occurred at equal rates for men and women who are in arrears, 88% of those incarcerated would be men, not 95% to 98.5%, and 12% would be women (since 12% of those in arrears are women). If, as Brennan’s report shows, as few as 1.5% of those incarcerated for non-payment of child support in Massachusetts are women, instead of the expected 12%, then women in arrears are incarcerated at a rate eight times less than their numbers warrant.

Src: https://pjmedia.com/drhelen/2013/03/15/women-who-fail-to-pay-all-of-their-child-support-are-incarcerated-only-one-eighth-as-often-as-men-with-similar-violations-n130850

Lucky_Miner01 · 2023-03-22T00:30:39+00:00

I salute you brave sir, bringing that up in a public school in the UK

Title	Good statistics
Author	Linkinator7510
Upvotes	31
Comments	39
Date	March 21, 2023 5:57 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/11xoqo2/good_statistics/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/good-statistics.1186810 https://theredarchive.com/post/1186810

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