I need help

SCROTAL-SACK · 2017-04-16T08:09:13+00:00

You say you've only recently enlightened yourself to this stuff. It's normal for one to be overly passionate at first. I'd recommend smiling and not getting involved, or maybe throwing in a suggestion here or there without getting in too deep. Focus on protecting yourself. A lot of people aren't ready to see the truth.

feedmecarrots · 2017-04-16T09:39:41+00:00

Rather than preach, it may be best to drop a kernel of information that would lead to a sound conclusion.

iainmf · 2017-04-16T12:05:46+00:00

I think everyone is familiar with the feeling of looking back 5 years and realising that you didn't know as much as your thought you did. And then thinking 'if I was that stupid then, then how stupid am I now compared to how I will be in 5 years time.

If you could have a conversation with your past self, could you say anything to make them get smarter faster? Maybe not. Our revelations are the result of lots of little influences all adding up and creating a eureka moment. That's the path your friends are on and that's the path you are on.

If you want to help your friends open their minds, you have to be open too. You can't have a discussion if neither party is open to changing their mind. Some of their point of view probably has merit or at least will help you to better understand your own point of view.

In any case, the process is slow and if they have to let go of deeply held beliefs, it can be upsetting or even painful.

It is a marathon, not a sprint, so pace yourself.

SeeEmmDee · 2017-04-16T14:28:41+00:00

Keep in mind that you're challenging stuff that's been deeply ingrained into our society - it's probably similar to being an atheist in a god-fearing country, or caring about racial equality in the days when black slaves were still the norm. To the people on "the other side" you're the nutcase breaking the status quo, who can't see that he has it so wrong. To them, saying that men are discriminated against is just as ridiculous as saying that cats go "woof", even if they see video evidence of it happening, they'll dismiss it as an anomaly because "everyone knows" cats go meow. I'm not condoning that way of thinking, but I think it's important to try to empathise with the mindset of "the other side", especially when I strongly disagree with it.

You aren't in the wrong, but imagine just how wrong you seem to those people, then maybe reevaluate whether or not it's worth engaging them. Django didn't ride into Candlyland to try and convince Calvin that keeping black people as slaves was wrong, because he knew it wouldn't have worked.

LikeIEvenCareDude · 2017-04-16T08:57:03+00:00

I went through a similar thing when I became an atheist after 12 years of indoctrination. It wears off in a few months. Just make sure you know what you're talking about before you go opening your mouth. You need to be able to successfully explain and defend your positions.

splodgenessabounds · 2017-04-16T11:07:31+00:00

After gaining this new perspective I just can't help but trying to show others what I've discovered as well.

Anyone who's discovered something of worth in their lives has the same impulse - to act as a missionary in uncultured territory. I've done the same (though not about MR) in the past with more or less the same results. What I learned - through time and as much introspection as I could muster - is that I cannot (and did not) convert anyone to any "truth" I had discovered by persuasive rhetoric or good old sanctimonious preaching, and if you're doing any of that, stop it right away. What I've learned (if reluctantly) is that both "truth" (whatever that loaded term means) and friendship are equally valuable, and that being true to both takes time and self-reflection.

But you're on the right track - you're aware that you're being a bit of an arsehole. My only suggestion (I shy away from giving advice) is to keep swapping ideas with friends - challenge them and listen when they challenge you - and give them and your newfound ideas time.

Blutarg · 2017-04-16T16:06:38+00:00

Don't cut them out, god no. You just have to practice being around who disagree with you about some things. I've been there, so I know it's hard. Just remember that, despite being wrong about some things, they're still a good person overall.

William__F0ster · 2017-04-16T08:20:08+00:00

Within the past few months I have taken the red pill and my perspective has completely changed.

I bet it hasn't.

It sounds more like you saw something on 4Chan, thought it was really funny, and didn't have the common sense to know that what seems funny on there when you're at home in front of your PC is a lot different from what seems funny to your friends.

And don't give me that crap that you should cut people out of your life that are cancer.

So we're not the first people you have asked for help with this for then, eh?

Or was this more 4Channing?

It's turning me into an asshole. Anyone else go through this and do you have any advice?

No, I haven't been through this.

Yes, stop being an asshole and stop blaming being an asshole on a loose metaphor for seeing things differently.

Regardless of what your opinion on something is use tact, empathy and other relevant social skills rather than barking at people like a red-faced Commissar that everything they believe is wrong.

deathdragon5858 · 2017-04-16T08:49:42+00:00

Most of us go through it, and whoever told you to cut out the cancer is right, really. Your life gets a lot easier when you aren't carrying around dead weight.

It's either that, or always be arguing, or worse, just placating them by either parroting things you don't believe, or not saying anything at all. That doesn't help anyone.

Imnotmrabut · 2017-04-16T12:42:24+00:00

The Backfire Effect
The Misconception: When your beliefs are challenged with facts, you alter your opinions and incorporate the new information into your thinking.
The Truth: When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger.
You're Not So Smart
Nyhan, Brendan; Reifler, Jason (June 2010). " *When corrections fail: the persistence of political misperceptions". Political Behaviour. Springer. 32 (2): 303–30. doi:10.1007/s11109-010-9112-2.*

GET familiar With Woozle Effect and How Data Is Misreported In Support Of Bias

The Woozle Effect
Results of a weak study may be repeated so many times in different sources (e.g., professional journals) that they (undeservedly) achieve the status of a law.
Eileen Gambrill (20 February 2012). *Propaganda in the Helping Professions. Oxford University Press, USA. p. 316. ISBN 978-0-19-532500-3.*

A Great Comback on Woozled Data Relied upon by Feminists and MRAs is This Example

Rethinking Domestic Violence - 2011
"Woozles are usually not simply a matter of authentic misreporting. They also reveal a desire to read into the data an a priori position that is really not there, what Bacon calls "idols of the theatre" (see page ix in this volume). All the data reporting mistakes I have found in the literature, without exception, were made in the direction of supporting feminist preconceptions."
Donald G. Dutton (1 January 2011). Rethinking Domestic Violence. UBC Press. p. 29. ISBN 978-0-7748-5987-5.

Learn How To Debunk Memes And Fasle Beliefs And Avoid The Warfare

The Debunking Handbook
Debunking myths is problematic. Unless great care is taken, any effort to debunk misinformation can inadvertently reinforce the very myths one seeks to correct. To avoid these “backfire effects”, an effective debunking requires three major elements.
First, the refutation must focus on core facts rather than the myth to avoid the misinformation becoming more familiar.
Second, any mention of a myth should be preceded by explicit warnings to notify the reader that the upcoming information is false.
Third, the refutation should include an alternative explanation that accounts for important qualities in the original misinformation.
Cook, J., Lewandowsky, S. (2011), *The Debunking Handbook. St. Lucia, Australia: University of Queensland. November 5. ISBN 978-0-646-56812-6. http://sks.to/debunk*

IronJohnMRA · 2017-04-16T16:07:09+00:00

After gaining this new perspective I just can't help but trying to show others what I've discovered as well.

Fair enough. However, I would say you have chosen the wrong audience. Instead, I would suggest starting a YouTube channel or writing articles about these topics and offering them to people who may already be receptive to your views. This would give you a useful outlet for these new found tendencies. Besides, the MRM is always looking for content producers.

Juan_Golt · 2017-04-16T18:16:29+00:00

Put some distance between "ideas" and "identity". What you believe doesn't have to be who you are. Keep your identity small.

Just look at a history book and you will see countless examples of extreme views being 'normal' for the era. Humans have a long history of considering really bad ideas as truth. There are certainly more examples that will only seem obvious in hindsight.

Consider yourself an observing scientist rather than proselytizing missionary.

Liv47 · 2017-04-16T07:46:31+00:00

I think maybe gender politics isn't for you. It's not for everyone. My advice is to get out while you can. Your friends and happiness are more important than becoming an activist. There are plenty of lonely, miserable people here to pick up the slack.

Title	I need help
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	10
Comments	51
Date	April 16, 2017 7:23 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/65o07m/i_need_help/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-need-help.925641 https://theredarchive.com/post/925641

Comments

GET familiar With Woozle Effect and How Data Is Misreported In Support Of Bias

A Great Comback on Woozled Data Relied upon by Feminists and MRAs is This Example

Learn How To Debunk Memes And Fasle Beliefs And Avoid The Warfare