Let's practice. Give me your best elevator pitch describing the Men's Rights Movement. The rest of us can play devils advocate, so we can learn how to defend our position.

PeterArching · 2013-09-17T17:40:24+00:00

Isn't there a boilerplate for how to convince a christian to become an atheist, or a muslim to become a mormon in 60 seconds or less we could borrow?

Oh wait, you mean it isn't that simple to convince someone that everything they've been taught their whole life is all lies?!

agilecaveman · 2013-09-17T21:15:22+00:00

Who do you think lives longer? Men or Women? Who dies more from most types of accidents? Suicide? We have a culture that devalues men and their contributions, that treats them as disposable soldiers, replaceable fathers and ATM machines. Men are blamed for every ill that besets themselves, and every condition that could possibly exist. If a man works 60 hour weeks and comes home to a housewife, he's an oppressor. If the genders are switched, he's still the oppressor. We are blamed for merely existing. This isn't a new problem, but we gather for Men's Rights today because we have capacity to tackle it. We can finally get ourselves to say and the state to acknowledge that I am a human being, god damn it! My life has value.

lafielle · 2013-09-17T19:38:54+00:00

It's the idea that women are adults, men are human beings, and both deserve equality of opportunity, rights, and responsibility; it's the recognition of science and facts, that controlling for "equality" of outcome through inequality is exactly that, inequality.

ManUpManDown · 2013-09-17T17:56:20+00:00

This is a good idea. I offer my short answer in case others are finding that their articulations do not do the movement justice (or worse, make it seem like something it's not).

Here’s my short elevator version (say, from floor 2 to 3):

“Well, fundamentally, the MRM seeks to highlight and combat the widespread under-empathy for male suffering that leads to systemic male disadvantage in various social and legal contexts.”

Here’s the floor 2 to 15 version:

“Well, fundamentally, the MRM seeks to highlight and combat the widespread under-empathy for male suffering that leads to systemic male disadvantage in various social and legal contexts. In this sense, MRAs not only focus on discrete forms of male disadvantage, such as bias in courts. They also—and more importantly—focus heavily on the sociological and psychological root causes of male disadvantage. In doing so, MRAs come to different conclusions than do feminists regarding the root causes of, and true nature of, sexism in western societies. Thus, MRAs are compelled to reject feminism as the appropriate paradigm for achieving true gender equality. In fact, MRAs believe that feminism, because its worldview is so tendentious and ideologically driven, actively exacerbates the gender inequality that males suffer from.”

Notice that the attack on feminism, while important to the explanation, is not the central thrust.

dalsgaard · 2013-09-17T22:33:23+00:00

I usually start giving examples, but I word them very carefully. I never mention women or feminism. "I'm a Men's Rights Advocate because....

Men commit suicides far too often; especially the elderly. And we need to find out why.
Every single boy born today, is expected to have a short life-span.
Men make up the vast majority of prison populations, meaning that there are a lot of young boys who fall through the cracks. This is a huge problem.
There is very little focus on male rape victims, or older boys who are victims of sex abuse. Their case needs to be represented, as it's not only underreported but largely ignored by society.
Men's health issues have been underrepresented, and have not received enough attention. The exception being the movember movement, which we're of course very happy about.
Teenage boys are being drafted into the military against their will, or they risk being sent to prison; which isn't moral.
Boys of all ages are falling behind in education. We need to address what institutional problems lie underneath this discrepancy.
The majority of homeless people are men; we need more shelters that accomodate those who have been forced to live on the street.
The male gender are the majority of drug users and overdosers, as well as alcohol abusers. What is causing teenage boys to go down this road?
Laws that allow fathers no or little parental leave are unfair and regressive.

You can't really argue against any of these points, therefore they are a great springboard to a real discussion.

Super_delicious · 2013-09-17T23:56:06+00:00

I would say mens rights is about my son growing up in a world where he can express emotions, not be drugged or punished for being a boy, thrown in jail because of something a woman said, not being able to see his children but still pay tons of money for them, being made fun of for being raped, being arrested for being abused and being told he is second class simple because he's a boy. But it's not just my son that should be in that kind of world it's everyone's sons, brother, husbands and father that should also be in that world.

TheOtherBono · 2013-09-17T18:02:59+00:00

The last time anyone gave an 'elevator pitch' to a feminist, that person was silently assassinated by Reblecha Watson

TrouserTorpedo · 2013-09-17T20:59:35+00:00

"Next time you go into a newsagents, have a look at the headlines, and count how many go like this:

'Famous man sexually abused young, underage girl'

Then, see how many follow that in the article with one of two phrases. The first is, 'a court heard yesterday', the second, 'it was alleged.' It's likely to be all of them.

Innocence is smallprint for men when they are accused of a sex crime. Have you heard the phrase 'I never would have thought it of him'? Have you heard it when somebody has simply been accused?

That's probably the best way I can introduce it to you. It's not to say women don't have this or other issues, but as I say - see for yourself who this happens to."

mister_ghost · 2013-09-17T22:31:53+00:00

The MRM is not about undoing women's rights. It is about finding specific sectors of our society in which men are disadvantaged. For example, men kill themselves and die on the job far more often than women do, and in general die younger. They are far more likely to be profiled as violent, be homeless, and receive longer prison sentences for identical crimes. They control very little spending, have comparatively poor voter turnout, and are a minority in higher education.

euneaux · 2013-09-18T00:32:11+00:00

Feminists argue that the top 5% of men might be doing better than women. The reasons for this are disputed.

It can't be disputed that the bottom 95% of men are doing worse than women. The reasons for this are mostly unexamined.

....

I could go on with a whole manifesto or a wall of text, but as in advertising, brevity is power.

....

I once heard an older woman say with respect to feminism simply, "The pendulum has just swung too far."

baskandpurr · 2013-09-17T18:28:16+00:00

"Rights for men"

That usually does the trick.

rightsbot · 2013-09-17T17:16:16+00:00

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RBGolbat · 2013-09-17T18:20:44+00:00

Not going to right something word for word as to what I would say, but I've always found talking about the Duluth Model and how domestic abuse cases always favor the woman as the victim, often overlooking the ammount of physical abuse that is present.

euneaux · 2013-09-18T00:21:21+00:00

This is a really good exercise.

Some say we won't change any minds. Maybe they're right.

However it would be nice if we can come across without looking like idiots. It would also be nice if all the other fellow adherents didn't look like idiots.

It's always shameful when other individuals in the group look bad and the embarrassment makes one a much less enthusiastic member.

So fellas, for the sake of everyone else and the movement as a whole, polish your pitch!

I'll be working on my own and will report back.

I hope to learn from what we all share here.

euneaux · 2013-09-18T00:42:00+00:00

Don't try to think in terms of evidence or arguments.

Think in terms of ways to provoke your conversation partner to question long held assumptions.

More Zen riddle... Less Fisking*

C0CKPUNCHER · 2013-09-18T05:07:11+00:00

Helping the victims of suicide, homelessness and crime.

miroku000 · 2013-09-18T05:08:09+00:00

I tell them that my primary concern is that we do not pass laws that discriminate against men or women based on gender. Feminism has made a lot of progress in getting rid of laws that discriminate against women. We have eliminated all of the laws that discriminate against women in the United States. But, now there are some laws that discriminate against men. For example, in some places it is a greater crime for a man to hit a woman than for a woman to hit a man. Thanks to the lobbying of feminism, many places have laws that require the police to arrest the man when there is a domestic dispute. We have women's shelters but not so many men's shelters. Feminists often oppose laws that would make joint custody the default arrangement in divorces. At this point, we have achieved equality under the law except for places that discriminate against men. So, it is time to work on that.

crankypants15 · 2013-09-18T14:32:07+00:00

What MR stands for is in the FAQ. See sidebar.

avantvernacular · 2013-09-18T14:33:43+00:00

Do you think it's fair that caring fathers lose custody to abusive women? Do you think it's fair that men get convicted at higher rates and face harsher punishment than women? Do you think it's far that the law treats people differently based on gender alone? I don't. If you don't either, and maybe you'd like to do something about it, you should look into the MRM.

Title	Let's practice. Give me your best elevator pitch describing the Men's Rights Movement. The rest of us can play devils advocate, so we can learn how to defend our position.
Author	twowaysplit
Upvotes	23
Comments	45
Date	September 17, 2013 5:15 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ml0iz/lets_practice_give_me_your_best_elevator_pitch/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/lets-practice-give-me-your-best-elevator-pitch.1163624 https://theredarchive.com/post/1163624

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