Looking for Answers

iainmf · 2021-04-10T01:51:32+00:00

Please link to your youtube channel.

iainmf · 2021-04-10T02:17:55+00:00

Question 1: When men say 'men have it harder than women', why do they say this and how do they get to this conclusion?

Both men and women say men have it harder.

Personally, I only say this in relation to specific areas. I think it is impossible to reach that conclusion in broad terms. I mean, what do you measure to find out?

Question 2: Why do MRA's dislike feminism?

MRAs tried to work with the feminist movement but the feminists refused.

The feminist movement keeps opposing gender equality when men are disadvantaged.

Also feminists keep saying they hate men, mock men and oppose initiatives to help men.

https://archive.ph/LPr8k

https://archive.vn/2d4vm

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/a-book-called-i-hate-men-is-causing-outrage-but-it-s-time-someone-said-it-men-are-the-worst-b77161.html

https://archive.is/Ih5mr

https://archive.vn/4ta4X

https://www.wearyourvoicemag.com/misandry-as-praxis/

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2017-07-im-done-pretending-men-safe-even-sons/

https://notomalepsych.wordpress.com/

https://sputniknews.com/viral/201904121074064994-swedish-mp-all-men-rapists/

https://archive.is/zOSDx

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-25/incel-alt-right-mens-movement-masculanism-proudboys-milo/10482032

https://www.lennyletter.com/story/interview-hairspray-director-john-waters

https://medium.com/@anthoknees/women-have-a-right-to-hate-men-df41b4de3842

https://www.newsweek.com/why-men-must-be-excluded-feminism-stop-it-becoming-all-about-them-504298

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/nov/02/whyihatemen

https://archive.is/zfFYz

https://qz.com/work/1415102/hww4-alexis-ohanian/

Question 3: What are the biggest things you wish feminists would understand about men and/or MRA's?

Men care about women more than they care about men.

mikesteane · 2021-04-10T02:20:57+00:00

Can you link to your youtube channel please?

Huitzil37 · 2021-04-10T03:57:06+00:00

0: Sexism is a set of beliefs, roles, and expectations for women and men, enforced by women and men. It is not a matter of "one sex is powerful and punishes the other". It is an extensive system binding everyone with the participation of everyone.

1: Because the male gender role, in all of the history of human civilization, is "the one who has it worse, has less support and sympathy and more responsibilities, but is capable of earning greatness and respect." The purpose of sexism is to keep women safe, and it trades away women's freedom and respect for safety. Men get the opposite.

Men are raped as often as women, but face a system designed at every turn to deny and exacerbate their victimhood. Men are domestically abused as often as women, but face a system intentionally designed at every turn to be complicit in their abuse instead of helping them. Literally every other bad thing a human being can do to another human being, happens overwhelmingly more often to men than women.

Feminists were outraged by the threatening sexism of Boko Haram kidnapping 300 girls and used that as proof of how bad women have it. Boko Haram executed tens of thousands of boys and nobody cared. Feminists were outraged by a string of "femicides" in Mexico City. 7% of Mexico City's murder victims were female, 93% were male, and feminists said it was proof of how dangerous it was to be a woman.

Men have it worse because there is literally no category or measurement you can make to actually show women have it worse about anything, but we live in a world that refuses to acknowledge bad things happening to men in any way other than mocking them.

2: Feminism is sexism. It is not "equality gone too far", it is not "reverse sexism", it is the regular kind of sexism: a set of beliefs and expectations and biases aimed at keeping women safe. Feminism is just the change to sexism to keep it operating after the Industrial Revolution.

Men are agents and women are victims, men are threatening and women are threatened, women are valuable for innate being while men are only valuable for what they do, vulnerable women deserve support and vulnerable men deserve contempt, if a woman is upset she cannot be expected to deal with it like an adult and a man must use his agency to make the environment more suitable to her, women should be terrified of rape all the time, to gaze at a woman in a sexual way is an overt harm to her, a woman's hurt feelings are more important than a man's physical injuries, men as a whole have a responsibility for the well-being of all women and it is shameful they do not do more...

All of these things are core beliefs of sexism and core beliefs of feminism. Feminism doesn't fight sexism at all, it just wants to update how sexism is expressed in the industrialized world. Feminism is not obsessed with women's safety to correct a historical injustice, women have been literally and not figuratively safer than men at every point in history in every culture that has ever existed. Feminism is obsessed with women's safety because sexism is obsessed with women's safety, sexism says "If you can see women being hurt, then men need to do more to keep women safe! Don't ever look at or think about how that compares to how many men are being hurt, you don't need a point of comparison to how men are doing in order to say women are worse off than men!"

3: Your ideology is not synonymous with women. We hate your ideology because it is malicious, cruel, and destructive. Just because you claim to be for women does not mean hatred of women is the only reason to oppose you. We oppose you because you are incapable of making accurate observations and your callousness to men's harm as well as your willingness to sacrifice the well being of women who hurt your feelings make you actually evil.

We know you will make claims about how that's not "real feminism" and how "real feminism" is for equality. Based on the behavior of every feminist, we do not believe you. I have just outlined how the "normal" feminist has beliefs that they think are "for equality" but are disgustingly biased and callous. All of the social and political power of feminism is commanded by sexists who hate men and want to harm men, and the so-called "real feminists" who are "for equality" have never, ever been able to or even interested in preventing those sexists from using the power of feminism to make the world a worse place.

Bojack35 · 2021-04-10T04:13:18+00:00

1) When men say 'men have it harder than women', why do they say this and how do they get to this conclusion?

Do you mean men or MRA? You have female MRA just like you have male feminists.

As to why - it is statistically indisputable that men 'have it harder' in some areas and women 'have it harder' in others - even feminism acknowledges this with the condescending 'patriachy hurts men too.' For the most part all MRA is trying to do is draw attention to valid mens issues (and ask they be dealt with in a more direct way than the trickle down equality that supporting feminism supposedly helps) not make it a competition of who has it worse.

It obviously varies from country to country but in the western world men do have less legal rights/ protection than women so purely from a legal not social perspective it is an accurate if not particularly helpful statement to make. Socially people tend to notice and then focus on the issues that affect them most.

2) Why do MRA's dislike feminism?

The key to this question is what does feminism actually mean?

I completely believe in gender equality of opportunity (as long as we also respect that freedom of choice will not result in equal outcomes.)

If that is what feminism was I would support it.

The problem is by definition feminism is a female centred approach to gender equality. I actually dont mind that so long as feminism is honest about this - MRA is obviously a male centred approach. In fact I consider this preferable to egalitarianism in practice if not principle - the reality is peoples views are influenced by their experiences and it is better to have an honest conversation with different views than try and fail to equally consider all viewpoints. While I can strive to understand I cannot truly know the experience of a woman/homosexual/indian or anything else that I am not so it's far better to listen to others than try and speak for them. One of the most grating aspects of feminism is being told what my experiences as a man are and its attempts to control conversations on gender by silencing different opinions.

Feminism tries to tell men (and women) what they think and what their life is like and dismisses anyone saying otherwise. It's not interested in listening to others experiences but making other experiences fit into it's own world view.

My biggest problem though is the rationale of feminism being based upon men being oppressors and women the oppressed. It's just an inaccurate approach so dismantling a non existent patriarchy isn't working towards gender equality' it's just pointing fingers at men telling them to change and portraying women as victims while simultaneously saying women are strong and dont need mens help. It's contradictory' historically false' patronises both genders and tells people to ignore their experiences. It's a mess.

The way I see it a lot of pros and cons of either gender are related. Women being seen as more vulnerable/weak is an advantage in court but a disadvantage at work. Men being seen as more capable is a pro at work but also results in receiving less social support. Being cat called is the con to the pro of dating advantage - receiving more attention means more negative and positive attention. Etc... the point is what needs to be addressed is the cause not the effect. But by changing the cause you have to be willing to give up the pro as well as losing the con instead of trying to have your cake and eat it. Feminism focuses solely on the effects that are negative for women without acknowledging the positives and just labels patriachy the cause.

(Basically I dont so much dislike feminism as see it as misguided and often harmful even though most casual feminists probably have good intentions.)

3) What are the biggest things you wish feminists would understand about men and/or MRA's?

About men? We think differently but that does not make us faulty women. That and seriously the overwhelming majority do not want to rape anyone please stop telling us otherwise.

About MRA? We are not misogynists. Just people who have a different perspective on what causes gender inequality and how to achieve equality. Highlighting mens issues is not an attack on womens issues.

Sorry for the essay I wanted to answer as thoroughly as possible. Important disclaimer obviously just like feminism MRA is a collection of individuals who will all have their own different opinions. I disagree with many on here from time to time.

HioefullyHelpful · 2021-04-10T02:18:23+00:00

I am not an mra or an expert on the subject but I do believe that at least in the u.s men and women would have very similar treatment to one another and I do not think that across all areas men have it harder than women.

homo__schedule · 2021-04-10T03:25:01+00:00

Q1) I don't really agree with this statement anyways. I think that both genders have places where they are discriminated against.

Q2) I guess mainly because they call us a bunch of misogynystic incel pigs.

Q3) that we do care for women's rights. We are not out to put women back into the kitchen.

Classic-Discipline-2 · 2021-04-10T05:18:29+00:00

Q1: I believe some of the most fundamental parts of life is having a legal system that will support you as a person, I believe that, specifically in the western world, judicial systems don’t do this. Women are less likely to be prosecuted for the same crime, and when they are they are sentenced for a far smaller period of time. Women are far more likely to gain access to children during a divorce, even if they are not the best parent in the situation. I also believe society doesn’t hold women to the same social standard as men. For example it’s not seen as reprehensible for a woman to domestically abuse a man as it is vice versa. Men have almost no support for DV, sexual assault or rape. Men are far more likely to take their own lives and be depressed. Circumcision is not viewed as a bad thing, at least not when compared to FGM. Men are falling behind in education, and aren’t applying/being let into universities and colleges as much as women. Men are vilified in mainstream media by many feminists (see the Sarah everard case). There is generally less sympathy and recognition for male victims of anything, in any scenario.

Q2: I dislike feminism as whenever men’s issues are brought to light, it’s either spun as an issue for women, or not an issue at all. Feminists (in my personal experience) will try and shit down debates by labelling the opponent with pejoratives. Feminism is also teaching very harmful rhetorics and ideologies to boys AND girls; “teach men not to rape” “not all men, but enough men” and so on. When people try and bring up the fact that people are saying these things on behalf of feminism, they excuse it with an old “no true Scotsman” argument. “It’s okay because not ALL of us are doing this, it’s the minority”. I also believe people are now using feminism as a guide for man hating and an agenda for female superiority. I also hate the way they treat women who don’t like feminism, calling them “pick me girls” and saying they have”internalised misogyny” (as if women are unable to think freely or something).

Q3: I wish feminists would understand that MRA’S are after the same thing (well theoretically, as it’s more about female superiority than equality, and bringing down men to raise women) and instead of vilifying all MRA’S as “incels” they would just find a common ground with us. We want men and women to be equal, we don’t hate women. We just strive for true equality.

If you have any questions just ask and I will try and reply to you! It’s very refreshing to see someone trying to take part in a healthy debate, can I ask where you will be posting this to see the video (I won’t bash it because you have a different opinion or something). Thanks!

shit-zen-giggles · 2021-04-10T06:31:35+00:00

Question 1: When men say 'men have it harder than women', why do they say this and how do they get to this conclusion?

Can you recognize the strawman in your question? Can you recognize how deeply the "oppression olympics" have seeped into your thinking?

Question 2: Why do MRA's dislike feminism?

Because they lie for personal gain. They deliberately and persistently distort factual reality and thereby stand in the way of actually resolving those issues they proclaim to care so much about.

The Men's Rights Citation List - Men Are Human (see subsection on feminism)

See also https://domesticviolenceresearch.org/ for a very thorough debunking of the feminist assault on truth and reality with respect to domestic and intimate partner violence.

Finally, because they are a cult, shorter intro here.

Question 3: What are the biggest things you wish feminists would understand about men and/or MRA's?

That "the patriarchy" isn't created by men to oppress women. If anything women's hypergamous mating imperative formed the hirarchies that feminists refer to as "the patriarchy".

MostLikelyPoopingRN · 2021-04-10T06:34:48+00:00

Q1: most men and women who are seriously involved in men’s right issue don‘t engage in this „oppression Olympics“ or race to the bottom which is prevalent in modern feminism. It can’t be said objectively whether one sex is worse than the other.

Looking at men’s issues (in the western world), it’s not hard to make the argument that at a systemic level men are severely disadvantaged because of their gender. Boys are graded more harshly and receive lower grades in school for the exact same work (See OECD study on the topic). This is part of the reason why women outnumber men in universities and the number of men has been dropping for decades.

Once making it through a school System that discriminates them (see also countless instances of boys being shamed for masculinity in school), men enter the professional world which also largely favors women. Men will earn less than women (an actual wage gap nobody will ever talk about) until their 30s when differing life choices like amount worked will raise men’s salaries to reflect the greater hours worked (on average).

Meanwhile, „women-only“ programs in traditionally male-dominated fields create a quota system disqualifying men without giving them a chance. For the woman-dominated fields? Nope, nothing to encourage more boys to study biology or work in any of the industries dominated by women. I’ve seen this from personal experience: I worked at a Major organization where more men applied but women had almost a 2/3 majority. When I left, the HR strategy was specifically to target more women. If a company or organization touts its diversity, chances are it’s actually woman-dominated since the very definition of „diversity“ has been changed.

Then there are the other issues, like men making up the majority of suicide deaths, homeless, workplace accidents and death, etc. Male victims are also often turned away from domestic abuse shelters, even publicly funded ones that are supposed to be non gender biaised. The amount of male only shelters (zero in some places like US) does not at all reflect the number of male victims (over 40% of cases in US, see cdc stats). This would be like suicide hotlines turning away women who call, since they’re „less of a victim“. That of course would never happen, nor should it.

Q2: For almost all these problems, large parts of society (led mostly by feminists) victim blame men by telling us it’s all our fault. That’s if we’re even allowed to speak about it, since all to often were told to shut up, sit down and listen, because „now’s not the time to talk about your issues“. Most feminists who are actually willing to listen will just blame a „patriarchy“, and if we just stop being toxic our problems will disappear. Well, it’s not an imaginary „toxicity“ that sees boys and men discriminated against since school. And telling a suicidal man his problems are his own fault for being „toxic“ Is the worst form of victim blaming.

Q3: the absolute most important thing I wish feminists would understand is that talking about men’s issues/rights is not an attack on women’s rights. Stop saying it’s misogyny when a man mentions that we have issues too. This isn’t about the men who only bring this up on international women’s day. There is never a time when we’re allowed to discuss it.

Also, there’s no such thing as a patriarchy. It’s just a pointlessly gendered false concept used to portray men as inherent oppressors and women as inherent victims and saviors. Feminists look at the top 1% of men, the CEOs, world leaders, etc, and then judge to 4 billion men on earth to the same standard. No, we didn’t build this system, and no, we dont profit from it more than any other group. The average man is more likely to be killed by random acts of violence or be victim of violent crime. The average man is seen as dispensable by a society. The average man is expected to eat a lot and have his first purpose in life to be provide for women and children (see Surveys of what women find important for a male partner). These aren’t characteristics of a male-favorable „patriarchy“.

StudentOfTheTruth0 · 2021-04-10T21:01:24+00:00

What do you mean by "from the feminist's lens"?

Are you planning to make a feminist propaganda video to "justify" false feminist claims such as that "MRAs are a misogynistic hate group"? The Southern Poverty Law Center (that they institutionally captured long ago) already declared this, the media is full of this, you are late to the party.

Or are you planning to make a video that actually dares to tell the truth about men's condition in this society? That they are oppressed and discriminated against (despite exceptions of rich and powerful men who are protected by their money) and feminists and women who support them are the real oppressors?

I have a feeling it will be the first one.

So I would warn all men on the MensRights reddit about collaborating with you. MRAs shouldn't collaborate with someone who they don't know, neither know their intentions. Until it is proven that this won't be used against the MRA movement. It is entirely possible that this person wants to use their material to attack them.

Just a thought.

Now go ahead and call me paranoid. But you have been warned.

StudentOfTheTruth0 · 2021-04-10T21:11:58+00:00

How do we know that you are not an enemy of Men's Rights?

2021-04-10T08:08:34+00:00

Let me get back to you

Reddit1984Censorship · 2021-04-10T13:10:30+00:00

Because women are valued more in the sense that they are protected, nurtured and empathized with more than we are (and this will be denied and gaslighted).
I get to this conclusion by personal experience and by seeing and understanding the social rules and laws benefiting women over men all around, to the point that i dont feel any motivation whatsoever anymore to participate or help the society i lived in and instead i feel like i have to organize my life around protecting myself from society (for example not getting married nor have kids to not get destroyed in family court).
Becasue feminism censors mens issues as hatesspeech (and yes this will be denied and gaslighted too), and therefore haltering mens rights progress by shuting down all attempts to put societys attention and resources towards mens issues as well (like a selfish sister would do with the attention of your parents).
We dont come from an emotional place like feminist group tend to do. The main reason we do things, our motivation, is not emotional. We only care about hard cold rules of society being unfair.
And i say this because most of conversation with feminist will very very quickly turn into ''Why do you feel this way? Why do you hate this or that? You do this because you feel this way!!''
All of that is irrelevant.
Yes we do ''feel'' stuff, but is not what ''drives'' our goals, feelings are just colateral effects not the focus. For example in the first question i express how i feel about society, but the ''problem to be solved'' is not that feeling, taht is the colateral consecuence, the problem is the cold hard fact that i have to organize my life around protecting myself from society rather than work along with it.

FerdinandvonAegir124 · 2021-04-10T17:09:29+00:00

1 no gender has it harder than the other that’s just the feminist victim mentality

2 MRA dislike feminism because it isn’t about equal rights anymore it’s about superiority. (I’m only taking about 4th 5th wave feminism) I wish feminists would understand we are not your enemies you are making us your enemies

EgalitarianFacts · 2021-04-10T08:06:34+00:00

Question One, Here are the double standards operating against men, BUCKLE UP!:

The Paper Abortion for Men. Is it okay to force a woman to be a parent because a pregnancy occurs? No. Therefore the same for men.

Equal Parenting Laws. 50% automatically assumed custody is self evidently equal.

Eliminating, or forcing women to sign up for, the draft. To say the draft affects no one now is to erase all those millions of dead those still living miss so dearly.

Gender Equal Sentencing Laws

Gender Equal Funding Laws

Gender Equal Physical Requirements Laws. Like, say, for firefighters, soldiers, police, etc.

Elimination of VAWA for it's violation of men's 14th Amendment Rights. Most victims of intimate partner violence ARE MEN!! http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

Elimination of the pay gap myth. Take into account all factors rather than just all full time men's and women's wages, which is laughably simplistic, and the gap disappears.

Gender Equal Divorce Laws and Enforcement

Anonymity for the Accused Laws If the rape accuser is anonymous, so is the accused.

Men's Studies courses in all Universities, or the Elimination of Women's Studies

Men's Domestic Violence and Abuse Shelters. 1 in 4 men, yet ZERO services, AND men under report.

Right to Genital Integrity for Male Babies. If they were chopping off 20% of the nerve endings in every vulva, there would be an uproar. Babies can't consent to permanent sexual alteration, regardless if it helps prevent infections or not.

Stop medicating boys in schools. Boys aren't defective, the system is.

Stop painting all men as potential rapists/child molesters. "Teach men not to rape." Like all men are rapists and must be taught otherwise. How about "Teach women not to be golddiggers." See how both contain sexist premises? And, to top it all off, almost 50% of all rape allegations are false! https://www.aals.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Bowen-Kanin-False-Rape-Empirical.pdf

The study is sound because you can't say that those strong, independent women who don't need no man would just shrink away from a polygraph or it's refusal. You don't get to blame that weakness on anyone but those women. Further, you can't complain about the study using the actual police data because that's objectively stupid on it's face. There are no valid criticisms of this study, it is solid and undeniable.

Question Two: Because feminism blames men for these problems instead of admitting they caused them or pretending they don't exist, or demanding that men put up with them without complaint "Man UP!"

Question 3: That if men treated them like they treat men, they'd feel like burning the fucking world, and that they need to stop....because that pendulum is gonna swing awful hard and very far when it finally does.

Looking for Answers

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Gender Differences in Empathic Sadness towards Persons of the Same- versus Other-sex during Adolescence

Title	Looking for Answers
Author	JaiZeh_Tub
Upvotes	5
Comments	23
Date	April 10, 2021 1:44 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/mnvigz/looking_for_answers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/looking-for-answers.1187170 https://theredarchive.com/post/1187170