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Open Source Software: Male Nerds Contributing To The Common Good For Free–So Feminists Ask “Where Are The Women?!”

wiseprogressivethink

May 25, 2015
16 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.vdare.com/posts/open-source-software-male-nerds-contributing-to-the-common-good-for-free-so-feminists-ask-where-are-the-women
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Post Information
Title Open Source Software: Male Nerds Contributing To The Common Good For Free–So Feminists Ask “Where Are The Women?!”
Author

wiseprogressivethink

Upvotes 16
Comments 21
Date May 25, 2015 6:04 AM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/376ami/open_source_software_male_nerds_contributing_to/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/open-source-software-male-nerds-contributing-to.979372
https://theredarchive.com/post/979372
Red Pill terms in post
feminismfeminist
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Comments

[–]bakedpotato486 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Shit. Since this bothered her enough to write this blog post, I have only one thing to say in return; get on your ass and program something yourself! Could you possibly admit to yourself that women just aren't interested? Why not write something inspiring to get women into it, instead of complain about all the men that already are? Otherwise, STFU.

[–]InBaggingArea -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Women face misogynistic attitudes, oppression, othering, objectification, subordination to paternalist norms, a life of subjectivity and of feeling inessential, in that they are defined only relative to men. Men are the absolute human type. Women are seen as limited men, defined by what they lack.

Women are used to passivity because they have had the rules imposed upon them by men. Women must engage with the struggle for their freedom. They must become fully active in all spheres of life in order to become fully human.

Accepting the life of passivity and stagnation is evil. Women must engage in life as much as men.

Come on women. Start coding. It's lovely once you're immersed in it.

Eschew those high heels, hypergamy and hypoagency. Get the fuck out there, do something for yourselves, and cut the pretty little helpless cupcake act.

Check your self-subordination.

When that happens, we will be able to stand before one another, new man and new woman, as new human beings. You won't know the benefits of this until you try.

[–]Code_Bordeauxx 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Women face misogynistic attitudes (and men face just as much misandry, probably more), oppression (largely debunked and certainly not more than men), othering (so do men), objectification (so do men, only less as sexual objects, and more as worker drones, which is just as bad), subordination to paternalist norms (largely debunked, perhaps once, but we live in a mostly gynocentric society nowadays), a life of subjectivity and of feeling inessential (by their very own agency, not because of the opression of men), in that they are defined only relative to men. Men are the absolute human type. Women are seen as limited men, defined by what they lack. (and this last part is just pure conjecture. You may feel this way, where is the reality to back it up with?)

EDIT: I now realised your post was partly sarcastic. Wasn't very apparant though.

[–]InBaggingArea 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Yes. I'm very far from convinced by any of that myself. In fact I started out intending sarcasm. Then I got interested in what would happen if we just accepted all that stuff from second wave feminism. Lo and behold it seems to lead to the same conclusion as the post I was replying to. Anyway, forget those first few paragraphs for a second. We can get back to them later.

You did not complain about the second part, from "Come on women" onwards. Do you have any complaints about it, or do you largely agree with it?

[–]Code_Bordeauxx 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Do I agree women need to stop being passive beings and start contributing to society and doing what they want to do in life? I certainly do.

But you won't see me cheering them on to engage in programming. If that's what a woman wants to do? By all means. But for the future of society, I think we need to stop pushing (but ofc keep allowing) women into the workforce and accept that a lot of them serve society and their own interests better by running a decent household first and foremost.

Equality in opportunity should always be the bottom line, but policies should strive for maximum happiness and not for equal outcome (same % in programming) between the sexes. And they're doing a terrible job when it comes to accommodating happiness. We're more equal in outcome than ever before, but what's the point if unhappiness is also at an all time high?

[–]InBaggingArea 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I've been thinking some more.

I think we could agree: equal opportunities, but don't force women into science or into work if they have other options they'd prefer, such as keeping a decent household.

Yes?

[–]Code_Bordeauxx 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

Since you're so strongly overthinking this, may I suggest you watch the first episode (and perhanps then some more) of the Norwegian documentary Hjernevask? Not too long and really insightful. It covers, among other things, why equality in outcome is in fact less in the most liberal countries. You may thank me later.

[–]InBaggingArea 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I saw it already. I know about the difference between equalities of opportunity and outcome. I took the class.

I'm not overthinking it. You're underthinking it. At least, you're not thinking about the same question I am, but that's OK. You don't have to be.

Thanks for answering my questions.

[–]Code_Bordeauxx 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, I meant overthinking as in thinking it over. I support philosophizing. Good you already saw the vid. It seems we're on the same line here.

[–]InBaggingArea 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair dinkum. That was a bit curt of me. Sorry for that. I have a history with "overthinking". It's not pleasant. You wouldn't want to know. ;(

[–]InBaggingArea 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It's kind of like you want them to do what they want to do in life, but then you take that back and tell them what they should do: get back into the kitchen, for the sake of the future of society. However, I realize that's not what you actually said. You're saying they should do what they want, and that may includ running a decent household.

I don't see any disagreement over a preference for equality of opportunity over equality of outcome.

You say we should strive for maximum happiness, but "happiness" is notoriously ambiguous and there's a danger of describing as happy a situation for others that happens to suit you, such as the happy negro, for a slave owner, or whatever.

What do you think about a policy that strives for maximum individual liberty along with an ethic that says each person should use their liberty to pursue their own freely chosen projects, and that each person should take responsibility for defining their own raison d'etre rather than abdicating that responsibility to others and hiding behind others for a sense of moral purpose in life? In other words, maybe liberty is more important than happiness, and maybe the greatest moral weakness is just giving in to whatever rules and regulations and life definitions some other individual or agency imposes upon you against your will. Maybe the greatest wrong is just to give up and accept that, as if you are just a helpless, lifeless dependent and servant of others. Maybe what you should do is live for yourself, in the sense of defining for yourself what is important and going for that, indepdently of what others want from you.

Maybe it is only then that we can be fully human, both as men and as women.

[–]niczar 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'd also like to point out that nobody needs to know your gender when contributing to an open-source project. No mention of my gender on my github page, because I'm not a fucking narcissist.

[–]puripuru 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This. I'm always confused at the dislike for open source software and why people think it is "sexist". It's pretty much a meritocracy utopia, you could not find somewhere with less gender bias because pretty much most of the time no one even knows what your gender is, it is all pretty much based on your work.

[–]garglemesh42 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Meritocracy is sexist against women, shitlord! /s

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sadly actually not sarcasm.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My favorite thing about the Internet is that nobody knows I am a dog.

There's no reason to point out you're a girl when you're writing open source software other than to get brownie points for being a girl.

[–]rottingchrist 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, when it comes to tech, almost all the people working in their spare time and giving away their high quality work for free are men. It is one of very few industries where sharing and openness is valued so highly.

While most whining about copyright and restrictions upon use of work within the tech community comes from the digital art types, who constantly complain about people using some image they doodled, without permission.

You can look up and compare the gender ratio among programmers to that among digital artists.

[–]BetterBadIdeas 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminists: "where are the wyminz?!"

Nerds: "yeah. Where are they? We've been waiting for decades"

[–]synn89 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the criticism of the original blog post is pretty off. It's not a complaint that women aren't in open source, so much a question on whether there have been prominent open source contributors that are women that most people don't know about.

The other aspect of the article talks about the way most modern OSS projects feel driven to be commercially successful and highly competitive. But you have to keep in mind that the free software movement is NOT about a widely used end product, or commercial success, so much as it's about freedom, ownership, and sharing.

So from an OSS standard having projects with a different type of drive and purpose behind them isn't counter to the ideals of OSS. In fact if those projects did bring in new programmers who otherwise wouldn't have been comfortable in a standard meritocracy, it'd be a benefit to OSS as a whole.

[–]rg57 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If it's not in C+=, does it really exist at all?

[–]Piroko 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where are the women.

"Believe me professor, I've been asking myself the same question for 6 years."

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