Our rights are also under attack

Aimless-Nomad · 2022-05-12T01:26:33+00:00

Saw OP's post history. Totally not a guy or the biggest simp posting in this sub.

maxlvb · 2022-05-12T00:45:17+00:00

FYI:

“Justice therefore dictates that if a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support. Or, put another way, autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choices.”

Karen DeCrow feminist lawyer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_DeCrow

If women’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a fetus, then men’s partial responsibility for pregnancy does not obligate them to support a resulting child.

Elizabeth Brake, political philosopher

I don’t believe there is anything good about feminism that seeks to enslave men in name of a women’s right to choose.
It doesn’t make sense to respect women who treat men like an ATM.
Feminists feel the same way about forced parenthood responsibilities as they feel about forced genital mutilation. As long as it's not happening to women, they don't care.

If/when you want the society you live in to make abortion legal (for whatever reason), then all of that society gets to make that choice, including those that are biologically incapable of giving birth and/or aborting.

Warder766312 · 2022-05-12T00:45:08+00:00

Abortion wasn’t a right. It’s not listed in the constitution so it was thrown back to the states according to the tenth amendment. Get your local reps to codify it if you’re intent on keeping it. Learn how government works or how to read legal briefs and you’ll realize 99% of what social media and the news says is bullshit.

NutsLikeMelons · 2022-05-12T01:10:16+00:00

You specifically said in the title “our rights are also under attack”

Please list the rights men have right now that are under attack?

Lasttoflinch · 2022-05-12T01:16:00+00:00

If the child is conceived from mutual consensual sex, the father (and the mother) should rightfully be liable to fulfill their parental obligations.

That said, the parents can always surrender their child via safe haven law if they wish to be absolved of parental responsibilities.

duhhhh · 2022-05-12T01:25:56+00:00

Men do not have any right not to have parental responsibilities for unwanted children. Women don't only have biological outs, but also social ones like adoptions without disclosing the father and anonymous safe haven dropoffs. Males get no outs no matter how the child was conceived.

After Hermesmann v Seyer set the precedent, courts around the country have decided that male victims of women owe the perpetrators child support for decades, while other precedents (Roe v Wade) and laws (safe haven laws) generally allow female victims many options to get rid of the product of their rapes.

Hermesmann successfully argued that a woman is entitled to sue the father of her child for child support even if conception occurred as a result of a criminal act committed by the woman.

E.g.

Alabama man - https://law.justia.com/cases/alabama/court-of-appeals-civil/1996/2950025-0.html

Arizona boy - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/

California boy - https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1996-12-22-9612220045-story.html

Others in this paper "Victims with responsibilities" -https://lawpublications.barry.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=cflj

There are many others out there. I do not believe there has yet been a single case where a boy or man has gotten out of paying child support to an adult woman that statutory raped, raped, sperm jacked, etc.

The good news is that in recent years feminist lobbiests have pushed for laws to prevent rapists from getting child custody. Without custody the child wouldn't be raised by a rapist and the victim wouldn't owe child support. So the day that a male doesn't owe his perpetrator may be coming soon. The less good news is that just over half the states that passed these laws passed them as the feminist lobbiests proposed them - only preventing rapist fathers from getting custody. (https://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/parental-rights-and-sexual-assault.aspx)

Terrell v Torres recently set a precedent and invalidated a signed contract to let a woman use embryos created with her ex and have him owe child support.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2019/03/18/arizona-court-ruling-use-preserved-embryos-without-ex-husbands-consent-ruby-torres/3205867002/

Courts have ruled the same way in Illinois and the US supreme court agreed.

http://www.fathers4equality-australia.org/fathers-rights/woman-wins-custody-of-embryos-after-separation/

Courts have ruled the same way in a very similar situation in Italy.

https://www.ansa.it/canale_saluteebenessere/notizie/lei_lui/vita_di_coppia/2021/02/25/si-allimpianto-dellembrione-dellex-marito-anche-se-lui-dice-no_05230156-95ea-406a-aa7e-4e90cf2d7c93.html

Courts ruled the same way in yet another similar case in Israel.

https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%A9%D7%AA_%D7%A0%D7%97%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%99

In several other cases women who forged her ex's signature to implant have been awarded child support from the unwilling father. E.G. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5687477/Ex-husband-ordered-pay-child-support-former-wife-forged-signature-undergo-IVF.html

Reproductive coersion of men is also an issue that would be drastically reduced with financial abortion.

approximately 10.4% (or an estimated 11.7 million) of men in the United States reported ever having an intimate partner who tried to get pregnant when they did not want to or tried to stop them from using birth control

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_coercion

American talk shows for women encourage women to stop birth control without telling their partner with the applause of their audiences.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5CNHwhHWPoQ

What about IVF with sperm taken from a condom without the man's consent?

https://www.mommyish.com/woman-steals-ex-boyfriends-sperm-has-twins-sues-for-child-support-836/

How about when they only engage in oral sex which should have no pregnancy risk?

https://rollingout.com/2014/02/04/woman-uses-sperm-oral-sex-get-pregnant-force-man-pay-child-support/

How about court orders mandating men give their wife sperm so they can impregnate themselves during divorce proceedings?

https://theprint.in/judiciary/court-orders-man-to-donate-sperm-to-estranged-wife-who-says-no-time-for-2nd-marriage/255215/

Financial abortion would solve all the financial issues for victimized males and remove financial incentives for women to do these things, but many pro-choice folks immediately start making pro-life talking points that if he didn't want a kid he should have used a condom or kept it in his pants.

Financial abortion is about bodily autonomy. No out for child support forces a man to spend years of his life working to pay for a child he does not want. If he loses his job and is unable to pay, he will be locked in a cage.

1 in 8 men in South Carolina jails are there for failure to pay child support. They are not given court appointed lawyers until they are $10k behind and most are arrested and lose their job way before that limit making it extremely difficult to pay.

Src: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/20/us/skip-child-support-go-to-jail-lose-job-repeat.html

In the US,

66 percent of all child support not paid by fathers is due to an inability to come up with the money

Src: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-myth-of-the-deadbeat-_b_4745118

Mothers owing child support are more likely to not pay fathers than visa versa, but women are rarely jailed for it.

we found that 32 percent of custodial fathers didn't receive any of the child support that had been awarded to them compared to 25 percent of custodial moms

Src: https://www.npr.org/2015/03/01/389945311/who-fails-to-pay-child-support-moms-at-a-higher-rate-than-dads

But women aren't sent to jail at nearly the same rates for failure to live up to their obligations.

Based on national data, if incarceration for non-payment of child support occurred at equal rates for men and women who are in arrears, 88% of those incarcerated would be men, not 95% to 98.5%, and 12% would be women (since 12% of those in arrears are women). If, as Brennan’s report shows, as few as 1.5% of those incarcerated for non-payment of child support in Massachusetts are women, instead of the expected 12%, then women in arrears are incarcerated at a rate eight times less than their numbers warrant.

Src: https://pjmedia.com/drhelen/2013/03/15/women-who-fail-to-pay-all-of-their-child-support-are-incarcerated-only-one-eighth-as-often-as-men-with-similar-violations-n130850

63daddy · 2022-05-12T01:58:17+00:00

I can’t force a woman to get an abortion when they are legal. Regardless of the legality there will be women who will get pregnant, have the kid and collect child support. In states where abortion is outlawed, most women who want an abortion will still get one, illegally, by going out of state, by getting a D&E for “other reasons” etc.

The legality of abortion isn’t the main issue in men paying child support. The main issue is men have no legal say in the issue. Even if abortion is illegal, women still have all the choices. They can insist on child support, they can get an abortion where it’s legal, they can give the child up for adoption or legally abandon it.

Whether or not some states make abortion illegal or not, women still hold all the cards and get to decide if men will pay child support or not.

patxiku93 · 2022-05-12T01:03:16+00:00

Abortion is a women's issue, men have o say in it. They've made that clear. You can't come back expecting support from a demographic you'be barred from the topic all together.

-doqtooth · 2022-05-12T00:42:36+00:00

How is it a right lmfao, don’t fuck them if you’re not willing to deal with the consequences. It’s simple logic.

NutsLikeMelons · 2022-05-12T00:47:44+00:00

You have no abortion rights now. You’ll have none in the future. What you do have is a % shift in the probable outcomes from a lack of sexual discipline on your part. Act accordingly.

Billy-Batdorf · 2022-05-12T01:14:09+00:00

Your argument is faulty. We do benefit from abortion, couples undoubtedly benefit from family planning in general, but it was never our right. But it will harm Men, without abortion there will be more blame on Men and a shift back toward child support offenders prison, and more child abuse. Everyone will lose.

Title	Our rights are also under attack
Author	DoggieDMB
Upvotes	0
Comments	61
Date	May 12, 2022 12:41 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/unofgj/our_rights_are_also_under_attack/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/our-rights-are-also-under-attack.1114557 https://theredarchive.com/post/1114557

Comments