Question about the difference between 2nd and 3rd wave feminism

HotZone_ · 2015-09-19T23:46:02+00:00

Pretty good run down. The main difference between the 2nd and 3rd wave is that modern feminists have now achieved major institutional power. Ironically, this has occurred at precisely the moment when first world feminists no longer have any real issues. So instead of saying "mission accomplished" they are manufacturing crises like "rape culture" and focussing on ridiculous trivialities like "manspreading." They are also attempting to shield themselves from criticism by appropriating other people's struggles (intersectionality). At the same time, men and boys are falling way behind, which is making the whole "patriarchy" thing seem rather absurd. Their enormous success has undercut the ideological basis of their movement. If we live in a "patriarchy," how come females have all the advantages and males have all the disadvantages?

One other important point: feminists can no longer argue that the man-haters are an insignificant minority. The misandrists are running the ship. They are authoritarian and increasingly outright fascistic.

If there is to be a fourth wave it will be egalitarianism, which will mean rejecting a great deal of feminist theory and admitting they fucked up big time. This will only happen via the men's rights movement. No one concedes power willingly.

Lethn · 2015-09-19T23:20:14+00:00

You're not far off at all, however, I'd be very wary about using suffragettes in general as being reasonable. The thing is, like with most groups feminists had their militants and misandrists a long while back too, what's happened is these types have grown more and more to the point that there are barely any moderates left anymore.

I've seen the same sort of thing when looking at the history of the Anarchist-Left, before it used to be groups like the Catelonian Anarchists who were genuinely fighting some real fascists during the spanish civil war. However as time has gone on they've started to disappear and now it's nothing more than feminists in that area as well for the most part aside from the Anarchists who are lurking here too.

xNOM · 2015-09-20T01:02:53+00:00

The 1st wave was the mid-19th and early 20th century women's activism, especially the Suffragist movement. Philosophically, it was based on Enlightenment values and was, in my view, pretty reasonable in its demands.

What? Suffrage without public service? How is that reasonable. This is also the time period when children started "belonging" to women. The "tender years" doctrine. And the whole family court shitstorm started. It's also when alimony abuse started. In no way was anything this first wave did "reasonable."

The "waves" are not interesting to me. It's just one giant tsunami of neverending rights before responsibilities. After the industrial revolution when birthrates plunged, running a house was no longer a full time job, and life started to become easy for women outside of the upper class.

Cartesian_Duelist · 2015-09-20T03:52:56+00:00

I see a rather clear divide between the 1st and 2nd waves. But the 3rd wave... I don't see much of a fundamental difference between the 2nd and 3rd waves. The 3rd wave seems like an attenuation of the 2nd wave and I've never gotten a straight answer about differences between the two. The best I've heard is talk about the 3rd wave focus on 'intersectionality', which is just their euphemism for the Oppression Olympics.

The difference between the 3rd wave and 2nd wave are:

1) An appropriation of other causes under the feminist label, e.g. black rights

2) A rejection of TERFism

3) Better PR

rocelot7 · 2015-09-20T04:50:08+00:00

Approximately two decades.

mikesteane · 2015-09-20T09:49:11+00:00

The 1st wave was the mid-19th and early 20th century women's activism, especially the Suffragist movement. Philosophically, it was based on Enlightenment values and was, in my view, pretty reasonable in its demands.

Most people would agree with you, but a reading of such works as Belfort Bax's "Te Fraud of Feminism" or "The Legal Subjection of Men" will paint an entirely different picture and one which is not seen by many people. I recommend you download these books, they are both out of copyright, and get a POV different from the one you have probably been subjected to.

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-09-20T09:53:41+00:00

I don't consider there to be a third wave at all. Whatever differences there are between today's feminists and Friedan's bunch are simply too small to make it a truly different entity. Get women into the workforce, into universities, into government, into board rooms -- these are the same goals that have been in place since the 1960s.

sexyjeremypharoahwiz · 2015-09-20T11:24:08+00:00

The most common argument about how 3rd wave is different that I've heard 2nd wavers argue is that 3rd wavers want all the rights 2nd wavers fought for without accepting any of the responsibilities that come with it.

Klytemaestra · 2015-09-22T10:33:53+00:00

There are no "waves" of feminism. There is the Suffrage movement, which died out in 1920. And there is modern feminism, which was born in the 1960s, known originally as Women's Lib. The concept of "waves" is cockamamie bullshit.

chocoboat · 2015-09-20T02:11:49+00:00

Like the term "feminism" itself, no one agrees on exactly what the terms "2nd wave" and "3rd wave" mean exactly.

Your description is as good as any other one. Some people will disagree with it. But you've never gotten a straight answer because there is no one official nailed-down meaning for these terms.

Generally when someone says "third wave", in my opinion, it means modern feminists who can't see their own privilege and search for ways to see themselves as the victim of everything.

Personally, I see a clear divide between 2nd and 3rd. The 2nd wave weren't professional victims, they didn't see themselves as superior to men, they didn't demand special treatment.

Globalization101 · 2015-09-20T03:17:08+00:00

Feminism is patriarchy.

AdVader · 2015-09-20T00:14:02+00:00

my conclusions, 3rd&4th wave are thriving on 2nd wave which abuses 1st wave (falsifying history), 3rd&4th wave are only social-societal, sneaky maintaining hardfought unjust 'rights', 2nd wave started with the pill, next abortion, no-fault divorce and postmodernizing/polluting the system, society and people's hearts&minds, postmodern (2nd-3rd-4th) femini$$m is mindcontrol, fascism-sexism worse than racism, a most severe dehumanizing mindillness, women's rights are inhumane, the making of sociopaths!

Title	Question about the difference between 2nd and 3rd wave feminism
Author	ay_ch
Upvotes	14
Comments	37
Date	September 19, 2015 11:14 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3lm64p/question_about_the_difference_between_2nd_and_3rd/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/question-about-the-difference-between-2nd-and-3rd.971028 https://theredarchive.com/post/971028

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