Question from a person outside the MensRights/Feminism Communities: "How do you not get tired/frustrated?"

Meistermalkav · 2013-12-27T18:39:40+00:00

The thing is quite simple.

We are ALREADY tired / frustrated.

All we do can only make this better.

SilencingNarrative · 2013-12-27T20:39:36+00:00

So my question is how do you put up with the flurry of information while not getting overwhelmed with the vehemency of the situation?

By taking a step back and noticing where the vehemency comes from, and then making the vehemency one of the prime objects of my intellectual curiosity.

As you noted:

It's not that I have no patience or am not open minded I just find many people do not approach the subject with an attitude of discussion so much as persuasion

r/MR and r/feminism are largely a venue for partisans to practice persuasion. When, you must wonder, will honest intellectual curiosity be in the front seat and partisan drive-bys take the back seat?

To answer that question, you need to understand how partisans and peacemakers interact with each other. And to understand that, dear reader, you need to understand how power/identity groups operate.

Any given person belongs to a number of power/identity groups. Those groups are constantly negotiating/fighting with each other for access to public power and resources. As Ambrose Bierce put it in "The Devil's Dictionary"

Politics: a special interest brawl masquerading as a contest of principles

Power groups have 3 types of members: rank and file, partisans, and peacemakers. The partisans and peacemakers compete with each other for the allegiance of the rank and file.

Partisans do so by making slurs against rival power groups, and peacemakers do so by reaching out to the peacemakers in other power groups to negotiate a truce.

When the partisans of two groups are evenly matched, the peacemakers can engage in good faith, and the rank and file are mostly aligned with the peacemakers. When one side partisans have an edge over the other side's, the rank and file stop listening to the peacemakers and only hear the partisans.

Back to your original question. MRA peacemakers like Warren Ferrel have been writing polite, thoughtful books and essays on gender issues for 30 years, and no one has been paying any attention to him (until very recently. in the last year, interest in his work has exploded). Why is that?

Because the feminist partisans had an edge. There were no MRA partisans to oppose them. So the feminist and MRA peacemakers were simply ignored.

Now that there are MRA partisans like avfm on the scene, and they have successfully engaged the feminist partisans (feministing, jezebel, mary koss, ...), people are starting to talk about Warren Ferrel and interview him.

As the MRA partisans win more engagements, the feminist rank and file will start shifting their allegiance toward the peacemakers, and the ferocity of the partisans on both sides will start to die down.

Hard to say how long that will last. I think the MRA partisans, although they have seemed to move mountains in just these last 2 years, are only getting started.

Have you been following the discussion over the CDC's 2010 NISVS report? That is an excellent example of this dynamic, and how powerful the feminist partisans had become. They were so powerful, that they had excluded the crime of a woman raping a man from their definition of rape, just so they could pretend that rape was a gendered crime. The MSM has yet to call them on it. Their executive summary tells that story (that female on male rape is so rare, that it is hardly worth mentioning next to male on female rape), but the data tables they published tell a different story (that women rape men as much as men rape women).

That battle is currently still raging. See how many reddit feminists you can get to admit that, and what sort of excuses they give to weasel out of having to admit it.

If you want to read a great book on how partisans rule the world, I can't recommend this book highly enough: The Righteous Mind, Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.

seenloitering · 2013-12-27T18:09:06+00:00

I'm confronted with it all the time. Reading and discussing gender issues is a nice break from carnival of gender performance that pervades everyday life. Understanding that carnival alleviates the exhaustion and frustration that infuse it.

Nepene · 2013-12-27T18:57:24+00:00

I agree that it can be frustrating, and do avoid a lot of the more frustrating posts.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1tt76w/physical_fitness_standards_lowered_for_female/

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1tt847/in_feminist_betty_friedans_1963_book_the_feminine/

Some threads are mostly about criticizing a feminist or group. It is a bit depressing, but it's happy to see the top comment is one which offers a more balanced and fair view.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1tslvn/movember_salutes_more_than_four_million/

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1tt847/in_feminist_betty_friedans_1963_book_the_feminine/

And some are more inspiring.

I personally have made some cheering activism threads, which have been displayed prominently.

Your_Bacon_Counselor · 2013-12-27T22:00:45+00:00

I just keep in mind that we are all just looking for some basic human rights. Money and power keep us apart. Your average person is far more reasonable than law would indicate.

Kimski · 2013-12-28T00:27:06+00:00

Pure self defense, plain and simple.

Ivan_Fackoff · 2013-12-28T04:08:52+00:00

I have classified humanity as 3 very general groups. Artists, techs and coders. All three interactive and interdependent. Artists are good at arts, music and emotional interaction. Techs are realists who enjoy interaction with tangible objects. Coders think in pure theory. You sir or madam are a coder. Very rare to see one. Majority of mras are techs with some artistic or coding abilities. We see world as interaction of various forces without focusing on details for long. I bet it's your attention to detail is what overwhelms you.

JakeDDrake · 2013-12-27T17:20:41+00:00

Feminist here. I do get very tired, especially when in "enemy territory" (ha) like r/MR. There's so much hostility surrounding gender issues, as well as many other human rights issues, that it is very overwhelming to try and weed through all the bullshit to find a good conversation that I can learn from.

But those times that I do learn something make it worth it for me. I live for that little "Aha!" moment, when things become clear and I understand the thoughts and motivations that other people have. And it makes me feel good when others learn something from me, too.

And as far as the actual issues go, I have a daughter whose life I'm pretty worried about. I grew up in a pretty traditional family, and I know that it's had a huge impact on how I think and behave. I really want to break out of those habits so that I can raise my daughter to be a good person (versus a good woman) and I find that talking about it is a good way to accomplish that, even if it drives me a little nuts sometimes. I've been trying to cut out gender slurs from my vocabulary, got her all gender-neutral toys for Christmas (already getting tired of that fucking drum, but it's better than the fucking worm), I've been making very great efforts to not judge other women for choices they make, and to not judge men for not falling into their traditional roles. It's not easy, but talking about it acts as a sort of reminder.

Seriously, though, very tiring sometimes.

2013-12-27T17:10:44+00:00

Then I just tell myself that if everybody focused on their passion the world would be a better place

The problem is that many people lack real passion. No passion for anything.

Creates problems.

Is it your passion, experience or do you find it interesting to learn and see these differences and change your view of the world (or I guess all or partially some of the above).

Yes, all of the above. :)

rightsbot · 2013-12-27T16:56:18+00:00

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ThePigmanAgain · 2013-12-27T23:31:05+00:00

If you like fighting you never get tired of it. As for frustration, turn it into anger and keep slugging away.

guywithaccount · 2013-12-29T04:19:38+00:00

You take breaks.

Fortunately, I'm in a position where although I am a man, I am unlikely to be killed, jailed, etc. as a result. I'm not married, not having sex with college girls, don't know a lot of women who are inclined to create drama in my life, not in the military, don't have a dangerous job, etc. If I ever get tired of arguing with people or don't want to support some MRM event, I don't have to. I can always pick it back up the next day, week, month, year... and I will, eventually, because the issues that brought me here still exist.

KiwiBuckle · 2013-12-27T18:50:49+00:00

Maybe we need a condensed MRA resource that tells men and boys the essentials they need to know about society, so they can protect themselves, focus on their maths and physics, and hopefully live good lives without being sucked into the feminist holocaust.

In short:
Don't get married!

Pecanpig · 2013-12-27T17:42:07+00:00

Do you think this is all that we do?

Title	Question from a person outside the MensRights/Feminism Communities: "How do you not get tired/frustrated?"
Author	KiwiBuckle
Upvotes	29
Comments	31
Date	December 27, 2013 4:54 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ttcio/question_from_a_person_outside_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/question-from-a-person-outside-the.1155076 https://theredarchive.com/post/1155076

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