~ archived since 2018 ~

Ritual circumcisions 'illegal'

AnnArchist

March 4, 2011

25 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/11/17/snip-op-illegal-115875-21828059/

Archived from /r/MensRights

r/MensRights is a community advocating for the social and legal equality of men and boys since 2008.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill subreddits and blogs. This page is our copy of the original post.

/r/MensRights archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	Ritual circumcisions 'illegal'
Author	AnnArchist
Upvotes	25
Comments	20
Date	March 4, 2011 3:06 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/fx0ag/ritual_circumcisions_illegal/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/ritual-circumcisions-illegal.1042519 https://theredarchive.com/post/1042519

Comments

[–]craigdubyah 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]numb3rb0y 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]craigdubyah -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

The father does not have the legal right to "consent" or allow a 3rd party to violate the legal and human rights of his son

First, circumcisions are legal.

Second, none of the major human rights groups claim that sterile, professionally performed male neonatal circumcision with parental consent is a violation of human rights.

Third, parents are the only ones that can consent to a medical procedure for a child, unless it is for an emergency lifesaving procedure, in which case doctors can proceed without consent.

Likewise, the doctor cannot and is not absolved from criminal and civil liability because he was just "following orders".

Actually, as long as he was given consent for the procedure and treated according to the medical standard of care at the time of treatment, he is absolved

Other than those points, you are 100% right.

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

First, circumcisions are legal.

You don't know that. By the letter of the law, in Canada circumcision arguably constitutes aggravated sexual assault (section 268 of the Criminal Code of Canada) and in fact the code explicitly includes female genitalia as protected by the code; there is no logical reason why the same protection should not be extended to men. See more legal stuff here.

But by convention, since nobody is ever arrested or whatnot, I agree circumcisions are "de-facto legal" or, shall we say, "not acted upon". But just as speeding down the road at 20 KM/h above the limit may not result in a ticket, that doesn't make it legal.

Second, none of the major human rights groups claim that sterile, professionally performed male neonatal circumcision with parental consent is a violation of human rights.

Not for lack of trying (and another).

Here is the Canadian Children's Rights Council opinion:

The Canadian Children's Rights Council position is that there is no medical benefit to the routine genital mutilation (circumcision) of any children (defined by U.N. as those under 18 years of age). Further, all Canadian children, both male and female, should be protected by the criminal laws of Canada with regards to this aggravated assault. Currently, the protection provided by the Criminal Code of Canada includes only genital mutilation (circumcision) of female children.

Major human rights groups not against male circumcision should be ashamed.

There are countless groups such as IntactAmerica, Mothers against circumcision, Doctors opposing circumcision, Jews against circumcision, and so on.

It speaks volumes about your proclivities that you discount and ignore the above groups.

Third, parents are the only ones that can consent to a medical procedure for a child, unless it is for an emergency lifesaving procedure, in which case doctors can proceed without consent.

Wrong. Neither parents nor doctors can consent to elective cosmetic surgery for infants. Parents cannot 'consent' to having their children's feet bound in the ancient Chinese tradition. Nor should parents be able to 'consent' to having their children's genitals mutilated to satisfy their own psychosexual perversions. And in Canada, parents do not have the right to mutilate their children's genitals if the child is female -- only if the child is male is genital mutilation tolerated. Sexist much?

Actually, as long as he was given consent for the procedure and treated according to the medical standard of care at the time of treatment, he is absolved

Doctors cannot have 'consent' to break the law.

Part of the issue here is that circumcision, even in the USA and Canada, is in a legal grey zone. There has been plenty written on the potential criminality of circumcision; here's one from Australia that happened to top a quick google search.

Not only is there a distinct lack of legal action on the topic of circumcision without complications, but there is a distinct lack of desire to act legally on circumcision. This may change. We will have to wait and see.

[–]craigdubyah 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow.

in fact the code explicitly includes female genitalia as protected by the code; there is no logical reason why the same protection should not be extended to men

I can think of a logical reason. They didn't want to outlaw male circumcision. Yep, that's pretty logical!

[3] Not for lack of trying (and [4] another).

Thank you for providing a perfect example of a major humans rights group refusing to declare sterile, professionally performed neonatal male circumcision a violation of human rights.

Major human rights groups not against male circumcision should be ashamed.

That would be all of them. And that's like... your opinion, man.

Here is the [5] Canadian Children's Rights Council opinion:

IntactAmerica, [7] Mothers against circumcision, [8] Doctors opposing circumcision, [9] Jews against circumcision

Thanks again for providing a wonderful example of how right I was. These are not major groups, they are fringe groups.

Doctors cannot have 'consent' to break the law.

Circumcisions are not illegal. Medical procedures are regulated by the medical community unless a law is specifically put in place. No such law exists.

In the eyes of the law, circumcision is just as legal as an appendectomy. There is no law explicitly allowing it, but there is no law explicitly outlawing it.

In the eyes of the law, female circumcision is illegal. This is because there is a law explicitly outlawing it.

Again, thank you for accidentally proving all my points.

[–]Equa1 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]numb3rb0y 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kanuk876[🍰] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FreddyDeus 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]skivies -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ranzera -5 points-4 points-3 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]KOAN13 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]iggybdawg 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist[S] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link