~ archived since 2018 ~

Seriously...? [NSFW]

SilikonBurn

April 9, 2013

61 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Seriously...? [NSFW]
Author	SilikonBurn
Upvotes	61
Comments	52
Date	April 9, 2013 6:22 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1c06j7/seriously-nsfw/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/seriously-nsfw.1610140 https://theredarchive.com/post/1610140

Comments

[–]Raudskeggr39 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinion4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]FriarTuck123412 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dm2879 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mountainmansOG-2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]dm2876 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Raudskeggr1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Raudskeggr2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YouDislikeMyOpinion1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]-6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]luxury_banana10 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]-2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm aware of this, and you might want to re-read what I said instead of jumping the gun and responding in a very emotional way. I did edit the original comment to be clear, but the following doesn't include the edit.

Me:

misogyny, chauvinism, and patriarchal oppression are things that women actually had to fight to get where they are today.

Women had to actively fight against discrimination based solely on the fact that they were women. There was no other reason that kept them out of having rights. While the examples you use, such as forced conscription, were the result of a very wide stratification between wealth classes, decisions by one man against another out of whatever that guy deemed necessary.

He didn't say "we should deny these peasants the right to vote because they are men", he said, "we should deny these peasants the right to vote because they are peasants."

The discrimination between the two groups in history are very different in nature, because discrimination against men, as a gender, wasn't really a thing until later.

[–]luxury_banana3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women had to actively fight against discrimination based solely on the fact that they were women. There was no other reason that kept them out of having rights.

How do you know this is fact and that the state of things didn't just arise from living conditions being much harsher and survival being much less of a given centuries back...? You don't. Women were given the franchise within what, 15 years or less of asking for it? Meanwhile men have been denied for example equal reproductive rights that women were given again within years of asking for going on generations now with no progress.

This is feminist dogma 101 you're bringing in here, and this isn't a place where people are going to nod their heads like one of those drinking birds with every word that comes out of your mouth, uncritically gobbling up everything you say.

The discrimination between the two groups in history are very different in nature, because discrimination against men, as a gender, wasn't really a thing until later.

How do you know that it's just not been so pervasive and that no one cares about low status males at all? You don't.

To me it seems we live in a hierarchy where a small percentage of men are on top, then the women, then the vast majority of men sitting right at the bottom of it all. Much like primates, really. Seems pretty clear when you consider the massive disparity in such areas as homelessness, available social services, government spending and so on despite us living in such an "enlightened" society.

[–][deleted]-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

For the sake of the future of our species, I hope you're kidding.

None of what you have said or brought up makes any sense whatsoever in the context of this conversation. But I'll try to make a conversation about it. I'm ignoring the first part because there is just no logical leap between what I said and your response.

How do you know that it's just not been so pervasive and that no one cares about low status males at all? You don't.

There are literally thousands of studies and documents throughout history that show that women have been discriminated against for no other reason than their gender. Feminist dogma may touch upon that, and bring it to an extreme level, but we cannot ignore facts because some crazy people take them and twist them out of their nature.

No one cared about low status people, not just men, and women were always considered of lower status than men until very recently. Again. There are hundreds and thousands of documents that back this, qualitative research with people's diaries, essays, newspapers, etc. I'll use the example of men, no matter what their status, being able to own land/property and women not being allowed the same for the only reason of their gender. In WWI era, unwed women of aristocracy (rich ladies, so they had status) weren't even allowed to be alone without a chaperone, while men could pretty much come and go as they pleased, no matter how much money they had. And, it wasn't a matter of safety--women simply weren't trusted to make good decisions by themselves.

Women were never educated or treated with the same seriousness as men were until very recently. And, reproductive rights were never an issue until sex barriers came down, and it became acceptable and even wanted for men to play a larger role in child rearing. All of this arose from women and now, men, working for equality.

There are obvious discrepancies between how we are treated depending upon gender, but men did not have to fight for their rights against gender discrimination, chauvinism, and misandry until very recently. Men had the draft and women did not, because men were the only members of society considered worthy enough to fight a war (and, given that they were more likely to be educated, and more likely to be stronger, that's probably a good assumption on the part of the people of that time), however, we live in a far more technological society; the draft being sexist only just now is relevant because our society is far more dependent upon education and technology, two things that don't have much to do with natural strength and stature.

[–]luxury_banana1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link