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  • Support

support programs for developing healthy holistic masculinity

gamerlololdude

September 10, 2022
9 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.contactxyspark.com
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Post Information
Title support programs for developing healthy holistic masculinity
Author

gamerlololdude

Upvotes 9
Comments 36
Date September 10, 2022 11:19 PM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xb31nd/support_programs_for_developing_healthy_holistic/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/support-programs-for-developing-healthy-holistic.1131477
https://theredarchive.com/post/1131477
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Comments

[–]OnThatSigmaGrindset 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

healthy masculinity

this implies that there's an unhealthy masculinity which i disagree with

[–]FalconTrash 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Excessive stoicism and useless competitiveness are things that come to mind when i hear unhealthy masculinity. Male gender roles and expectations aint perfect, just like femininity isn't perfect. Nothing in this universe is perfect, and its silly to assume that something could be

[–]OnThatSigmaGrindset 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

stoicism

stoicism is based wdym?

useless competitiveness

too bad life is extremely competitive.

the rest of what you wrote isn't about masculinity. it's about societal expectations.

[–]FalconTrash -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Competitiveness is misplaced in a cooperative environment. Think of crabs in a bucket. When you degrade somebodys success, even when you benefit from it. When you refuse to cooperate because you're too ego-focused. The male tendency to refuse help sometimes stems from this perspective, and its detrimental to yourself and your environment.

[–]antifeminist3 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I read a feminist article about sports being bad because it is 'competitive' (which is assigned male according to these feminists) and not 'cooperative' (which was assigned female and good by the feminists). This feminist failed to recognize that most sports are played in teams.

What did your coach say when you were a kid? "the most important part of winning the game is teamwork". Teamwork--also known as cooperation. So a 'male' activity combines cooperation and competition simultaneously and effectively.

You only ascribe negative connotations to competition. You failed to recognize you can have both competition and cooperation, and fail to recognize the positive aspects of healthy competition. I disagree.

[–]FalconTrash 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was talking about excessive and misplaced competitiveness, implying that there is such a thing as healthy competitiveness. Im already agreeing with you

[–]FalconTrash 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stoicism is based AF, and I'm grateful that I can control my emotions. It becomes harmful when its compulsive and you suppress all of your emotions. That's what lead me to self loathing and depression. Every emotion has a function and needs to be adressed, sooner or later.

[–]antifeminist3 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Masculinity is healthy. Feminists tried to complicated it by claiming masculinity means 'violence is acceptable'. I never learned that.

Feminists created their own biased definitions based on their prejudices and then claim we need to work against their concept of masculinity. Feminists--we need to work against you and your prejudiced definitions.

[–]rabel111 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is an amoral idiot attempting to exploit men with a program that is worthless, "mindful" garbage, with a sole aim of extrcting money from men.

Its a ripoff.

[–]Brandwein 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

How about making real support programs to change the system for them, instead of trying to reprogram men to fit the new system? This looks just like another exploitation of the male urge to self improve.

[–]MGTOW_Theory 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ideologically driven Garbage 🗑️ Making money of of men.

[–]iainmf 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

Nope.

Anything talking about 'healthy masculinity' is suspect because it is just a reframing of the 'toxic masculinity' narrative. It's applying ideology to therapy.

[–]rabel111 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Agree entirely. The "tell" of "healthy masculinity" reveals an ideological approach to masculinity assuming that masculinity is a learned behaviour unrelated to the biological experience of being male, and that some expressions of masculinity are unhealthy, the so called "toxic masculinity" ideology of feminist academics.

Both of these assumptions deny the essential act of being male, attach value laden biases to the expression of masculinity, and assume an ideological construction of masculinity is an effective surrogate for the lived experience of maleness.

[–]iainmf 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. And the assumption that men need to learn or discover 'healthy masculinity' implies men are defective in their current state.

[+]gamerlololdude[S] -6 points-5 points-4 points 3 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

how so lol?

Check out the podcast and the website. It explains quite well the work they do for issues impacting men

Toxic masculinity is a term in sociology that clusters the traits part of the western man’s gender role that are prone to cause harm.

[–]iainmf 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I looked at the website, well what I could because they want me to sign up or buy stuff.

I think it's a good general rule to stay away from therapists talking about masculinity. Therapists should not be trying to fit clients into sociological theories.

How sociology understands masculinity and gender is flawed. Men's experiences where not included in the development of gender theories. Feminists developed their ideas about gender from women's experiences and only after that did they try to fit men's experiences into that. For example, Connell's concept of 'hegemonic masculinity' was indented to explain women's experiences, not men's.

People who care about men's wellbeing should not base their views about men on flawed feminist reasoning.

[+]h3th3y -6 points-5 points-4 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

For anybody reading this. Please disregard this bullshit. Look into it yourself and make up your own mind.

Therapy can help many people work through internal struggles and misconceptions about their identity and role in society. Masculinity is a major source of expectations placed on men, and many of your assumptions about who you should be and how you should behave may be misguided.

Mental health issues and suicide is fucking rampant amongst men. And its generally accredited to our flawed concept of masculinity and what it means to be a man.

[–]iainmf 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Look into it yourself and make up your own mind.

Of course.

I'm not saying don't go to therapy, I'm saying don't go to a therapist who has an ideological bias.

Talking about masculinity prior to meeting a client is a strong indicator of therapist bias IMO. Look at the difference between the American Psychological Association's guidelines for men and boys from a few years ago and their guidelines for women and girls. The APA has even toned down their masculinity talk recently.

Another indicator of ideological bias is belief in the patriarchy. A study in the UK found therapists who believe we live in a patriarchy were less likely to provide male friendly therapy.

[+]gamerlololdude[S] -8 points-7 points-6 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t know what ideological bias you claim this website had. I share a website that helps with men’s issues and people here attack it for what the words it uses? The words describe a concept. Be curious to try to understand what the website is about.

Talking about the way men and boys are portrayed in psychology does involve acknowledging masculinity. gender roles and stereotypes and assumptions surrounding masculinity.

Patriarchy is a concept in sociology. It isn’t whatever people on this sub think it is. Yes there is a patriarchy. Even if laws changed the soft power of those past beliefs can prevail. Like just because now gays have equal rights doesn’t men’s homophobia is gone, heteronormativity still prevails. Just because women have equal rights doesn’t mean sexism in the form of seeing them inferior to men isn’t gone. Also patriarchy is related to default gender being male. Which is leftover in langages like French. Just because slavery was abolished doesn’t mean racism towards dark skin people doesn’t exist, white supremacy and relics of it still exist today.

[–]iainmf 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can't see the ideology, because it is your ideology.

[–]FalconTrash -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

đź’Ż

[–]shit-zen-giggles 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for proving the point. "Healthy masculinity" is indeed a deliberately misleading re-framing of the whole "toxic masculinity" garbage ideology.

Thankfully, such initiatives have already exposed themselves:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220908161120/https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/08/us/andrew-tate-manosphere-misogyny-solutions-cec/index.html

The old wolf in new sheepskin.

[+]h3th3y -6 points-5 points-4 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

For anybody reading this. Please disregard this bullshit. Look into it yourself and make up your own mind.

Therapy can help many people work through internal struggles and misconceptions about their identity and role in society. Masculinity is a major source of expectations placed on men, and many of your assumptions about who you should be and how you should behave may be misguided.

Mental health issues and suicide is fucking rampant amongst men. And its generally accredited to our flawed concept of masculinity and what it means to be a man.

[–]shit-zen-giggles 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And its generally accredited to our flawed concept of masculinity and what it means to be a man.

by toxic psychologists who have swallowed the feminist doctrin hook, line and sinker.

[–]Fabulous-Zombie-4309 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Which is essentially all of them.

[–]Fabulous-Zombie-4309 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nature is a major source of 'expectation'. Not masculinity. Masculinity is a response to the natural need for men to protect the vulnerable as we evolved to do.

[–]Fabulous-Zombie-4309 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Toxic masculinity, defined by the academy, says "these things make men bad". Toxic femininity, as defined by the same people, say "these things make women victims (and its patriarchy's fault). There is no such thing as 'toxic' masculinity. There is toxicity, and there are specific ways in which men are toxic, but there is no aspect of masculinity that is toxic.

[–]gamerlololdude[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not a lot of people actually know what toxic masculinity is. People in here are just listing toxic traits they associate with each gender, but that’s not really what the term means in feminist theory.

Toxic masculinity is a term describing the societal pressure on men to conform to toxic standards for masculinity. This includes things like the expectations to be strong, stoic, tall and dominant. Both men and women can enforce toxic masculinity.

Toxic femininity would be the same, except the genders reversed. “Societal pressure on women to conform to toxic standards for femininity”. Like the expectation to be overly agreeable and non-confrontational, and never direct about it if you dislike someone or something.

[–]iainmf 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not a lot of people actually know what toxic masculinity is

Please stop using a term that people don't understand and don't like.

[+]h3th3y -7 points-6 points-5 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Please disregard the other responses. You're absolutely right. We see so many of the types of people who replied to you commit suicide.

Their refusal to work through toxic masculine behaviour makes them progressively more hateful until something snaps and they have a breakdown. They up harming themselves and sadly, others around them.

You meant well, but its hard to help people. Many men prefer to just stay angry at women and modern society while the world as whole moves on and forgets about them.

This sub is a place where they can encourage each other by making up statistics for others to agree with. And as toxic as it all is, it makes them just a little bit less lonely.

Hope you've heard of the "village idiot" effect... Back in the day nobody would listen to the village idiot. These days the village idiot just hangs out on reddit where they can get validated by other village idiots.

Not saying that people on here are idiots, but you get the point.

[–]shit-zen-giggles 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Their refusal to work through toxic masculine behaviour

didn't take too long to get back to the old wording, did it?

'healthy masculinity' is just the mirror image of 'toxic masculinity' just like we said.

Here you got it, straight from the horse's mouth.

[–]iainmf 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep. And apparently if we don't confess our sin of toxic masculinity and repent, we will end up hurting other or ourselves.

Sorry, but I don't want to manipulated like that.

[–]shit-zen-giggles 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That they revereted to shaming language right away, exposed them beyond any reasonable doubt.

The wokeys always fall back to shaming when they realize that you're seeing right through their disguise of superficial empathy.

[–]Brandwein 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, so disingenuous.

Summary: "Fix your toxic attitude it is all in your hands or society will leave you behind idiots". How nice. No real empathy.

[–]gamerlololdude[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Podcast episode about it: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1537303/10884011

[–]felixlebarbu 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Site is hecka broken in mobile. At least if you wanna scam me by providing masculinity cures make the website functional.

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