~ archived since 2018 ~

That guy had a valid point....

[deleted] · 2011-05-14T17:30:53+00:00

this guy has a valid point although his wording doesn't support his case the standard should be upheld on both ends. I personally don't enjoy or...

[deleted]

May 14, 2011

2 upvotes

/r/MensRights

Archived from /r/MensRights

r/MensRights is a community advocating for the social and legal equality of men and boys since 2008.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill subreddits and blogs. This page is our copy of the original post.

/r/MensRights archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	That guy had a valid point....
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	34
Date	May 14, 2011 5:30 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/hbc1f/that_guy_had_a_valid_point/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/that-guy-had-a-valid-point.1039870 https://theredarchive.com/post/1039870

Comments

[–]rantgrrl 11 points12 points13 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Equa1 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwriteswhat 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]Shuttlecock 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]aetheralloy 4 points5 points6 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]aetheralloy 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]disposable_human 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]aetheralloy 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago* (21 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]girlwriteswhat 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

I've long since dismissed the idea that gender differences are merely social constructs. It's more than different piping. Society merely takes what applies (on average) to men and women and formalizes, limits and enforces them. This is sort of necessary for societal stability--you can sort of infer that because the more difficult life is in a specific area (political conflict, scarcity of resources, etc), the more restricted gender roles tend to be, and the easier life is, the more relaxed they tend to be.

But even in our incredibly (comparably) easy, peaceful, "nobody watching their kids die of starvation or having to fend off marauders or whatever" society, those gender tendencies aren't going away (not to the degree gender feminists would like them to). Women in general still sexually select for typical masculine traits (most of which served good purpose back in the cave but have fewer constructive outlets now), and that means those gender-specific traits will continue to thrive.

Equality doesn't have to mean everyone is the same. It should just mean everyone has the same chance to do what they want with their life. I think where feminism departs from sanity is when all success must be measured according to the male standard--who's to say a man who earns $125k/year but can't maintain a decent relationship with his partner and kids is "more successful" than a woman who earns $85k/year and has a more balanced life? It's silly, especially if that isn't what women generally want anyway, right?

[–]rantgrrl 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwriteswhat 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]girlwriteswhat 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwriteswhat 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwriteswhat 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

True to a point, but consider this viewpoint...

Be a single white male, and see how much of that support is still there.

The view of government support networks as being 'effective' is directly proportional to the potential benefits to be had. I submit that the vast majority of single white males have next to nothing available for supports, beyond such schemes as EI (which is funded by said person, not 'government').

I believe if you asked, say, 50 women and 50 men, each in isolation, how much government support they can count on...well, let's just say I believe a definite pattern will emerge. And one group in specific will say something like "So small it might as well not be there", I'm thinking.

So while yes, Canada is not a Third World country (a point I never made), there most definitely IS a higher income disparity between rich and poor. Ignoring the ramifications of this type of situation is exactly what led to the violent deaths of many a Royal House, as even the most cursory glance at History will support.

There most definitely ARE people starving and dying in the US and Canada, they're just men, and therefore unremarkable. The vast and growing underclass is the real problem though. What seems to be going unnoticed here is the role human nature plays, and I find that odd.

We live in an increasingly materialistic society, deliberately made so by some of the very people now benefiting so relentlessly from it. Media and advertising works by 'creating need'. Minolta came out with autofocus to answer a need no one had. Feminism created a whole new market for Big Tobacco. The very culture was used as a sales pitch, and "You can have it all" became the American Way. Modern society DEPENDS on more and more 'need', and the media and advertising create as much of it as they can.

Only most of us plebes are, like you, living below the poverty line.

Only a privileged few have experienced wage growth, or increased buying power, in the last 50 years. Everyone else really IS working harder for fewer rewards. And when that happens, eventually, they always realize it.

Then they get pissed off - at least in part due to inflated expectations instilled by a lifetime of advertiser's messages. And usually the cultural Elite has it's collective head so far up it's own ass, they believe the most minor of concessions (ie, lip service) will suffice. Then they finally realize their mistake, usually just before the blade severs their head from their body...

Jealousy, envy, fear, indignation, disillusionment...THOSE are the impetus behind revolution. Outrage at the unwillingness of the Elites to change make for sexy headlines, but without these baser emotions, there would be no "Revolution" - French, American, Russian, Cultural, or otherwise. If people didn't feel ripped off, they'd just shrug, chalk it up to 'experience', and move on.

And our materialistic society not only rewards these forces, it outright REQUIRES them for success. While our society might be safe and warm right now, it doesn't take long at all for things like that to change.

[–]girlwriteswhat 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Shit, you don't have to tell me consumption is the new religion. We evolved in a feast-or-famine world where we developed instincts to glut ourselves in times of plenty because you never knew when your next meal would be. Except now, we have credit up the wazoo and advertisers telling us about all the crap we must have in order to be valid human beings, and the famine doesn't come until you're so far into debt there's no way to dig yourself out.

I watch my fair share of "Til Debt Do Us Part" and similar shows. I get it. My family and I live very lean, my kids understand that I earn less than $2/hour of disposable income after everything else is paid, and can calculate how long I'd really have to work to pay for the material crap they want. They know not to ask for it, no matter how cool their friends think it is, unless they're willing to give me an equal number of hours of drudgery in return.

This is the shit they should be teaching kids in school--early on--so they don't buy into what corporate forces constantly tell them they want and have to have.

But the reality is, at least in Canada, it's possible to raise three kids on $45k/year and still eat sirloin steak more often than hamburger--if you have your priorities straight, and are a mindful, rather than a mindless, consumer. My child tax benefit is exactly the same as it would be if my ex had custody and was collecting it. I don't collect child support from him, though I could if I wanted to.

Were I a single, childless white female--I'm not sure what supports I'd be able to get out of the system. I suppose I ought to look into that.

[–]Kodiak_Marmoset 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kodiak_Marmoset 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

There was no mention of a "good society" metric in any of these posts, I have no clue which ass you pulled that out of, but yes: As far as metrics go, "no one starving to death" is a pretty fucking good one for measuring a society.

Girlwriteswhat mentioned how starvation and constant danger are pretty much controlled in western society, and you rolled in spouting off about income disparity, as if that had any relation to what she was talking about.

"Outside of Natural or Man made disaster"? Rwanda, Darfur, Somalia, Ethiopia, Liberia....Africa has been one enormous clusterfuck of disasters for decades. Famine and civil war and the occasional attempted genocide to spice things up. You can't simply say that everything is great in Africa except when there are disasters, when said disasters are unceasing.

You really think that there are a few Bill Gates-types hiding out in the Republic of the Congo? Seriously? Wow.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You really think that there are a few Bill Gates-types hiding out in the Republic of the Congo? Seriously? Wow.

Yeah, they live off of International Aid, and they are the ones commanding the ones doing all the killing. You're seemingly unwilling to see the forest for the trees. The point I was making is that complacent Westerners are patting themselves on the back, while their own societies are wildly oppressive in numerous ways.

I can tell this hit a nerve with you. Maybe you're caught up in the Political Civil War the US seems to be trying to start, I dunno. But if you think the US, for example, is any less brutal than those societies (in it's own way) you're fuckin dreaming. The US is the incarceration capital of the world, for example. So no, you don't behead people in the streets. You just legally drain them of everything they hold dear, then toss their shattered husks out to continue to 'produce' under pain of even further abuses.

Which I believe justifies taking a "pot, meet kettle" stance.

[–]disposable_human 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]girlwriteswhat 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MisandryIsPoop 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Bobsutan 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]pcarvious 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]col0rado 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

There's been a slow takeover of twox by the... I guess more extreme feminists out there. They're loud, and rather than stay and discuss things, or even argue with you, they'll instead shout you down and insult you for disagreeing with their point of view. There are a few, whose names I won't mention, that have basically done their best to shut down any rational discussion, and I do mean rational discussion.

It often gets to the point where it becomes a shouting match, and whoever can show the most disgust and outrage is the one who will get the most upvotes. Nevermind the fact that that sort of behaviour helps no one, it shuts everyone else up or intimidates them into keeping silent.

I've lost friends because I didn't agree 100% with their feminists views (when I identified myself as a moderate feminist), so to see that happening over there, it just sucks. There's no talking to people like that, and they are the ones who make sure of that.

[–]Celda 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link