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This petition needs five signatures to get going, please sign to hopefully imprison these two sexual predators and raise awareness for gender disparity in sentencing

LedZeppelin1602

August 30, 2016
37 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.change.org/p/uk-attorney-general-send-these-2-convicted-paedophiles-to-jail-instead-of-sparing-them-appropriate-punishment?recruiter=589248176&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive
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Post Information
Title This petition needs five signatures to get going, please sign to hopefully imprison these two sexual predators and raise awareness for gender disparity in sentencing
Author

LedZeppelin1602

Upvotes 37
Comments 27
Date August 30, 2016 4:01 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/50busd/this_petition_needs_five_signatures_to_get_going/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-petition-needs-five-signatures-to-get-going.942595
https://theredarchive.com/post/942595
Top posts by LedZeppelin1602

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Comments

[–]Wisemanner 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Signed.

[–]Arby01 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I see what you did there. lol.

[–]MickDaster 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Signed!

[–]ThePigmanAgain 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My manager signed it, because the bigoted bastards at change.org won't accept signatures from cartoon characters!

[–]-_-I-_-I-_-1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Done.

[–]LibertyIsNotFree -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I don't support thinly vieled attempts at double jeopardy, especially in a foreign nation that cares far less about rights and arguably could follow through.

Bad judgement or not, this was a lawful ruling. It is wrong to go after the convicted criminals for the judges ruling. The only appropriate actions are to either campaign against the judge if they are elected or through legislative action.

Of course even in this situation I wouldn't support legislative changes. Mandatory minimums are outright evil. I hope the US finds them flatly unconstitonal soon.

Remember that Orwellian mandatory laws are the same abominations that result in young adults being branded sex offenders for having consensual sex or merely sending pictures, these laws are the same ones that cause men to be taken to jail on the spot if a woman says she was hit, and the same kind of laws that land people on the sex offenders registry for peeing in a bush.

[–]bufedad 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't support thinly vieled attempts at double jeopardy

Double jeopardy involves trying someone until a conviction is achieved, this is not double jeopardy.

This is correcting an obvious sentencing mistake.

Bad judgement or not, this was a lawful ruling.

All rulings are technically lawful. If we don't do something about the gender sentencing disparity, it will remain forever.

It is wrong to go after the convicted criminals for the judges ruling.

It is correct to go after vicious sexual predators for not serving time for their crimes.

[–]LibertyIsNotFree -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't support thinly vieled attempts at double jeopardy

Double jeopardy involves trying someone until a conviction is achieved, this is not double jeopardy.

This is straight up about retrying them because people did not like the outcome.

This is correcting an obvious sentencing mistake.

Unless the judge ruled extrajudicially there was no sentencing mistake, as in material error not subjective disagreement.

Bad judgement or not, this was a lawful ruling.

All rulings are technically lawful. If we don't do something about the gender sentencing disparity, it will remain forever.

No they aren't. Clear cut example, judge who is taking kick backs to send juveniles to a private detention center. That's an unlawful ruling. That judge is in prison thankfully. Rulings can be found unconstitonal which would be unlawful.

It is wrong to go after the convicted criminals for the judges ruling.

It is correct to go after vicious sexual predators for not serving time for their crimes.

They are being punished for their crimes. You feel the punishment is unjust. That's entirely acceptable to feel, but it's morally and ethically wrong to demand their blood. You can change the system, but you shouldn't go back in time.

This would be no different than an epilepsy patient illegally using canabodial, being arrested and charged with drug manufacturing because of it being an oil. The judge assesses the situtation and deems a sentence to be akin to a lesser crime of possession to be the correct one. Now you're demanding this person be resentenced because you feel they got off easy.

This ruling was bad. But nothing good will ever come of restricting judges ability to ultimately rule. The most despotic world you could ever create would be one where a computer blindly applies the rule of law, every law to the letter of the law at all times to each citizen.

[–]bufedad 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This is straight up about retrying them because people did not like the outcome.

You know... without the retrying them. It is not unheard of for someone who has had a lenient sentence to get a harsher one. There is even a mechanism in place (in the UK) for just this situation.

Unless the judge ruled extrajudicially there was no sentencing mistake, as in material error not subjective disagreement.

This is the UK, not the US. They actually have a mechanism to deal with overly lenient sentences.

They are being punished for their crimes

We'll disagree on that.

You feel the punishment is unjust. That's entirely acceptable to feel, but it's morally and ethically wrong to demand their blood. You can change the system, but you shouldn't go back in time.

No one's going back in time, and I don't care one iota about their blood.

They committed a crime, and they should be punished for that crime. Period.

This would be no different than an epilepsy patient illegally using canabodial, being arrested and charged with drug manufacturing because of it being an oil.

With the exception that these were two sisters that maliciously abused their 6 year old brother for 10 years.

You know, not at all the same thing.

[–]hidden_but_true 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How did that 'excessive leniency' complaint go?

I saw a post about it the other day, but can't seem to find it back

[–]bufedad 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not sure. I'm not in the UK, so I can't make that complaint. Maybe someone else knows.

[–]HeForeverBleeds 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

This isn't sending pictures or peeing in a bush or a false accusation of hitting someone. This is two people manipulating and raping a 6-year-old child for more than a decade and possibly destroying him for life. If there's ever a case where a minimum jail sentence of multiple years is justified, this is it

To say that "well, sometimes these laws lead to innocent men being arrested!" is as idiotic as an argument as those who say age of consent laws should be unconstitutional because sometimes they lead to "innocent" young adults being arrested for "consensual" sex. Perhaps either of these laws--AoC and mandatory minimums--ought to be reformed, but they certainly need to exist and be applied when certain conditions are met, and judgements like this are exactly why

[–]LibertyIsNotFree -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I will never agree on mandatory minimums. That's why I hope it is found unconstitutional

To take mandatory minimums to the extreme would allow the legislative branch to usurp the judicial branch. If legislators can dictate sentences, the judicial branch is ultimately redundant

[–]HeForeverBleeds 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To take mandatory minimums to the extreme

Taking absolutely anything to the extreme has unfortunate consequences; having mandatory minimums in place doesn't mean it has to be taken to the extreme. Demanding that two women who continuously raped a young boy be imprisoned for at least a few years is the opposite of taking mandatory minimums to the extreme. Taking the lack of mandatory minimums to the extreme is what leads to predators like this walking free. There is no justification for it

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't support thinly vieled attempts at double jeopardy, especially in a foreign nation that cares far less about rights and arguably could follow through.

And I don't support giving these two child rapists the message that their disability is free get-out-of-jail card. Or their gender for that matter.

[–]Machnow 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

fyi....judges and prosecutors are appointed in England....not elected like in the US.

it's a job for life...can't fire them.

[–]mwobuddy -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Deafness could diminish a person's capability for doing right and wrong, or their perceived culpability, since a deaf person cannot learn social rules at the same rate as fully capable people. They should be put in some sort of mental health facility for at least a few years while they're retrained not to be abusers.

[–]EochuBres 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They can still read. It would still be culpable

[–]ThePigmanAgain 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They can also see the expressions on people's faces when the subject of pedophilia comes up. And if they learned to lip read, they can see how reviled pedophilia is simply by...er...reading lips.

[–]HeForeverBleeds 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

...a deaf person cannot learn social rules at the same rate as fully capable people.

It's not just "social rules" that a 16-26-year-old ought not to fuck a 6-16-year-old, it's also against the law. Laws are objective, and it's something any literate person can read and understand

On that note, these women were deaf, not mentally retarded. Impaired hearing--a physical disability--doesn't make a person less capable of understanding right from wrong/legal from illegal--a developmental trait

Even if they can't physically hear, they can still communicate with the outside world through writing and sign language, and read people's emotions through body language and facial expressions as well as any able-bodied person. And even if there were any disparity, it wouldn't be nearly enough to justify their getting no jail time for what they did over a period of 14 years

[–]mwobuddy -3 points-2 points-1 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Every avenue, every sense, which is cut off from the outside world diminishes our ability to learn and understand.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

diminishes our ability to learn and understand.

"Diminishes" being the key term. It diminishes, it does not eliminate.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Deafness could diminish a person's capability for doing right and wrong, or their perceived culpability, since a deaf person cannot learn social rules at the same rate as fully capable people

They're deaf, not brain damaged.

They should be put in some sort of mental health facility for at least a few years while they're retrained not to be abusers.

They abused a six year old boy for years. Toss them in jail where they should belong.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What utter idiocy. As if you need to hear the rules to know the rules. They can read, and they can observe people's body language, and if they can lip-read they can even see the things people are saying about pedos. Reduced ability is not the same as no ability -- compared to that Bolt guy i have a reduced ability to run, that does not mean that i cannot run at all.

[–]mwobuddy -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But what if in the course of your bad running you accidently jump in front of a moving car and make the person hit you?

[–]LedZeppelin1602[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If so then such equity would have to apply to all deaf people not just deaf women

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's agreeable.

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