Challenge My View - See post

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2015-04-16T18:13:37+00:00

I'm not going to chip in on every point just give a general overview. TRP contains a lot of manosphere ideas all brought together in one place. It's mostly about the sexual market place and how to improve your SMV and do better with women, but there's a lot more than that. I've gained a lot of knowledge and had some really good book recommendations from TRP. It works as a general hangout place for men to discuss ideas away from female influence.

Aside from the stuff which is apparently common knowledge, eg. workout, improve career, social skills, etc. TRP also delves into some very uncomfortable truths about female sexuality and the types of men women tend to go for, and the traits they find attractive. Everyone can tell you that girls like 'bad boys', but that doesn't really mean much. TRP tries to analyse why women like 'bad boys' and what traits they are attracted to. This is helpful to young men who are not bad boys and don't want to have to be 'bad' to get girls, but also don't want to have to wait till they're 30 before they get a chance with an attractive woman.

Some of the stuff delves a bit deeper and shows a dark side to women that most people are uncomfortable talking about. Women can be very cold and calculated in how they approach relationships, they can also be very callous in how they leave a man when he's at a low ebb. Some men get very angry about this and demonise the whole female sex as a result. The more mature men on TRP try to make men understand that this is just a part of female nature (there are plenty of bad things in male nature too) and men should accept this and not blame women, but be prepared for the worst.

Being aware of the sexual marketplace, things like hypergamy, Briffault's law, shit tests, etc. can help not just with attracting women for sex but in dealing with women (and men) in general every day life.

Blue Pill is people who don't have this knowledge, or simply won't accept some of the darker, harsher truths of human nature. Most BPers, or people on PPD against TRP, can't refute the basic ideas, but they seem to dislike the tone of the place. Also, a lot of BPers think TRP = misogyny, which seems to be nothing more than an easy dismissal of uncomfortable truths.

flexiblehold · 2015-04-17T05:13:36+00:00

TRP with 100,000 members is a wide tent with many factions. The part of TRP that is beyond debate is its fundamental premise, which is the source of its name, and that is TRP is the shedding of ideology, an awakening to the truth about inter-gender, sexual dynamics. "But the absence of ideology is an ideology, blahblahblah," -- yeah, I hear ya. But it's not.

TRP is a way of examining what women want in a tabula rasa way, a Cartesian swiping of the slate to see what truly motivates women in their relationships with men, whether that is in having sex with them or LTRs or anything in between. TRP uses evidence in scientific literature, examples from popular culture and field reports or anecdotes from men in the contemporary dating world to bolster the view that women have two motivations in mate selection while men have one.

While men seek the most physically stimulating woman, and while they remain open to the stimulation of many women, women themselves biologically yearn for men to sire and men to rear. Men do not instinctually concern themselves with childrearing, for reasons that should be obvious. But women do and must.

This leads inevitably to a schizophrenic sexuality, a duality of instinct in women, to be drawn to bad boys (genetically strong) for fucking and nice guys (genetically weak, but reliable) for provisioning. To be a man who can offer both is basically impossible, but TRP at least addresses this difficulty instead of sweeping its reality under the rug.

Some TRPers become so upset about the true nature of women that they go off the grid (MGTOW), some seek to exploit a woman's nature cynically for their own personal enjoyment (PUA), some like /u/illimitablemen choose to seek a middle ground of understanding women and attempting (however futile it may be) to be both the indifferent warrior they crave sexually and the comforting caretaker they need for their nest.

wazzup987 · 2015-04-17T05:25:50+00:00

2) Red pill reaches in to all aspects on the manosphere. it's not just limited to one area.

Yes and no. Terpers usually get pretty frosty reception at /r/mensrigths but the MRM was always the redheaded stepchild of he manosphere so no surprise there. and that is unfortunately starting to change and some more terpers wander over in to that form with there WBB posts. And i have seen some MGTOW espouse so down right blue pill notions, Nawalt, social constructivism ect ect ect.

Also Red pill means different thing to different sections of the manosphere.

In /r/theredpill it mean somethign closer to 'they live'.

in the MRM its more like those picture colage which form a larger image. each individual picture taken on it one is distinct and says nothing about the larger mosaic but take a step back and and see full scope of the situation.

PUA/game mean it more to discover ones own faults.

adrixshadow · 2015-04-17T06:10:52+00:00

We are calling you an ideology!

Because....

Ideology!

Is this your argument?

We are all painted by the views we hold. Whether its our philosophy, ideology or whatever we will act on them one way or the other.

When there is an injustice with the views we hold we feel compelled to change the world and resolve it.

As long as there will be perceived injustice there will be perceived ideologies.

To those who seek truth if there is no problem there is no need for a fix. But if the problem exist then maybe an "ideology" is needed.

10) Our experiences in life will determine what we look for and what we find. if i dont have the same experiences as some people in red pill i will wont go looking for it and i won't swallow it.

Blindness is part of the equation. You might not see what is already there.

relationshipdownvote · 2015-04-16T17:32:54+00:00

RP only works on stupid women and RP is common sense? There are about a thousand threads on this.

rafay_M · 2015-04-16T18:12:57+00:00

Philosophy (noun)
the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.

Sounds like Red Pill to me. One can be rational and come to different conclusions. It actually happens all the time.

Another thing about philosophy and redpill, from the mouths of one of our ECs, /u/illimitableman. Quote:

Science works alongside philosophy, it can't disprove it "entirely" because it's effectively a language vs. numbers type deal, but it can disprove whatever is quantifiable/measurable. In fact science evolved out of philosophy, and the curiosity of mind. Where science can disprove philosophy, we drop those ideas from the philosophy. Science has no mind of it's own. Philosophy is the mind of science, science is the right hand that tests the theories of the mind. Without philosophy you have no science because you have nothing to test for. You have no imagination, no need to prove anything.

Science cannot prove women are as logical as men just like my philosophication cannot prove they are not. There is a stalemate, and in the absence of evidence we believe in RP philosophy and it's rationalisation based upon our collective observations. Philosophy can be wrong, and like the early ancient greek philosophers the logic of the philosophy can be solid within the limited scope of your field of knowledge, but still be objectively wrong. Only when it can be disproved by science/technology is it right to declare the philosophy invalid. Likewise we test our philosophy in field and find it validated by our experiences, so even if it is not completely correct, it holds some value. Likewise, if we can accept the baseless claims of feminist ideology, then how is that fundamentally different from accepting the baseless claims of red pill philosophy? At least you can go out and test RP ideas and see them work. Testing feminist ideals out in the wild (defer to her, make her pay her half blah blah) often result in failure. It doesn't improve your chances of mating. Common sense would tell us that women disprove feminist ideas with their behaviour and how they react to men who buy into the feminist ideal. "Nice guys finish last" and blah blah. That's why a lot of dating advice nowadays for women seems to be completely paradoxical, cherry picking parts of traditionalism and feminism to give women "all the power." Which only further brings into question claims/desires of gender egalitarianism.

The full post i'll cut for the sake of brevity but is worth read

Lastly, the ideology within TRP is always changing. Just because it moves glacially and not always to suit your opinions doesn't mean its inflexible. The Red Pill of two years ago when it started is vastly different to the red pill of today.

2) yes

3) yes

4B) Yes. But we get this. From the RPW sidebar, to any thread on NAWALT, to /u/thorlives and his excellent theory here

Although, yeah, some things are bullshit.

8) Blue pill is not a theory or philosophy or an ideology. its a term that is used by red pill to describe everything that is not red pill. Red pill really doesnt get this.

Nope.

9) /r/thebluepill[8] is not the blue pill, its a place for people that are not red pill to come and make fun of red pill.

It is prettty full of sjw tho. and srs. and feminists. and women. and so yeah, see the link titled nope above. i really liked that explanation: "Its like people rib on retards and someone took the name "retard" to spite them. Well-intentioned, but kinda dumb."

CisWhiteMaelstrom · 2015-04-16T22:31:29+00:00

1) Red pill is not a theory or a philosophy but an ideology).

As someone with a background, I encourage you to look into the field called metaphilosophy. We've been asking for quite some time what philosophy is, what it's goals are, and how it ought to be conducted. We've come up with very little other than personal taste. To me, TRP seems a lot like philosophy. I don't see it as fundamentally different from what I do in school. It has theories though. They aren't tested by scientists but rather by individuals. That may not grant them the status of science, but TRP doesn't ask for that status.

2) Red pill reaches in to all aspects on the manosphere. it's not just limited to one area.

Agreed.

3) /r/theredpill is not the red pill but a place to discuses ideas about the red pill.

Probably true. Swallowing is what you do before going there and then we discuss what it entails and how we see the world.

4B) While the strategies talked and discussed on /r/theredpill work, they only work under certain conditions. 'Red pill' doesn't get this.

Of course TRP gets this. That's why we work so hard to bring about those conditions and identify when we're in those conditions.

5) Red pill while it will work for some wont work for every one and it is not the only way.

Agreed.

6) Red pill has some good advice, but the advice is nothing new or ground breaking, all it does is condense it and repackage it

Our theories are pretty novel. Self improvement is what people try to say "You don't need TRP, you have this advice from elsewhere" but that's false. Self improvement is only talked about with respect to everything else. It's the everything else that matters.

AnnoyingSeaAnt · 2015-04-16T18:36:44+00:00

I'll try

1)Somewhat true. It's basically more politicized PUA. Not everything redpill is ideological tho, a lot of it is forgotten relationship common sense, given with a edgy and-or pseudo intellectual flair to appeal to... well nerds. It's reddit, after all. It's less an ideology and more of a semi-political lifestyle.

2) True. But it's because MRA were discredited as fedora whiners , so a more "manly don't give a fuck" movement have taken place. Third wave created his own viliains.

3) True. It's a subreddit , not a wiki or an infodump.

4)True. Even if PUA were idiots , they tried hundred of thousands of times. Law of great numbers means that current PUA will be more efficient that any other method.

4.2) True. Roissy methods was needed for him because he was in DC, aka the land of absolute sociopaths. It also explain his Lovecraftian tier misantropy, he was probably disgusted by the rift between the PC image of politics and what really happen and overreacted.

Problem is: The Red pill work better in place were puritanical hypocritical third wave feminism exist. Gender wars=Less trust between sexes=Need of manipulative skills.

5) It's not the only way. It's the easiest way. Playing bad boy alpha and doing basic mindgames is pretty easy. Being a local celeb on a semi-socially acceptable scene is probably more rewarding, but that need talent and time.

6) Should be true. In the times of left media treating any people with mild un-pc thinking as the new evil ,i'm not so sure. You need to reinvent the wheel if the blueprints are in the index.

7)Well, if they changed positions every month , they wouldn't be terribly credible,wouldn't they?

8)True. Every group need his outsiders. But for all the evil they are supposed to be , they are not that hard against blue pills (except for white knights and feminists, but eh ,being political opposition and all).

9)True ,but it doesn't mean the mockery is always fair or based on facts. And the association of dubiously warranted smug with stealth SJW-ness don't make TBP terribly sympathetic in the current climate.

10)Well, if you naturally good with girls and are satisfied with what you get ,you don't need PUA/RP I suppose. Try still to get a good prenup,or they're is a significant chance you'll finish in RP anyway.

alreadyredschool · 2015-04-16T17:30:11+00:00

4), 5)

Everyone gets this.

8), 9)

That depends on how you use it, 90% of the time when someone on TRP says TBP he doesn't means the surbreddit.

[deleted] · 2015-04-16T18:10:12+00:00

[permanently deleted]

JarOfToothpicks · 2015-04-16T17:54:20+00:00

6 - Red pill has some good advice, but the advice is nothing new or ground breaking.

I'm always irked by this, because this is a veiled form of sneer. "Oh TRP? That old thing? Whatever, it's just common sense."

Title	Challenge My View - See post
Author	RandallWho
Upvotes	1
Comments	40
Date	April 16, 2015 5:22 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/32tr7z/challenge_my_view_see_post/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/challenge-my-view-see-post.282619 https://theredarchive.com/post/282619

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