[FR] Tinder date, several makeouts but failed to F-close. Analysis of possible mistakes + questions.

CopperFox3c · 2018-01-30T20:02:51+00:00

Not sure this isn't more of an askTRP thread, but since you want some analysis, here goes:

Not every girl, even off Tinder or Bumble or whatever, is down to sleep with you on the first meetup. You made the date, escalated physically, and playfully tried to bring her home. She said no, didn't want to. End of story. You did your job. That's all you can do.

As for critique, I'd say there's a a little more room for pull here, and less push. Did you initiate every makeout session? If so, you need to work on pulling back after you make the first move. You want to make her come to you. Make her reach for you. Get her physically excited, but then create a little space. A little separation. Make her think you are going to kiss her again, but don't do it. For example, lean in close, put your lips near hers, but then lean back.

We often talk about mentally teasing girls here on TRP, but's it's also important to physically tease them in a sexual way. You want to set up the dynamic where you both are equally pursuing each other. Push pull is the key to that.

TheBattleshipYamato · 2018-01-30T19:32:02+00:00

and I reply "agreed, and you're coming with me" grinning

This is a very direct approach. Keep in mind that this is putting pressure on her, and not something that is very socially acceptable for her to accept. There's no plausible deniability here. If she goes with you, you're going to initiate sex on her. If at that point, she isn't 100% sure she is going to fuck you, it's safer to just stop there, right?

Here's a little matrix to see how not coming with you is the rational choice to make for her in that instant. https://imgur.com/vRtHOC3

Now watch how the matrix changes when she's instead 100% sure she wants you to screw her! https://imgur.com/G1NHcvb

So, you either need to make her 100% sure she wants you to screw her, right there and then OR you have to provide her plausible deniability. Instead of saying "you're going home with me", say "alright, I'll drive/walk you home" or "you can crash at my place, it's closer" or any variation of that. When you arrive, suggest getting a drink inside, suggest she show you her appartement because she looks like she's great at decorating, say you need to use her bathroom, tell her you'll show her a cool album you bought, or any variation of that. Then you get beside her on a couch or bed AND THEN you make her 100% sure she wants your D, which is a lot easier to do within the privacy of a bedroom than out at a social venue with a stranger. Can you see the difference? At any of these points, she isn't being locked into the inevitability of sex. The choice to say no is always there. Of course, when you're in bed with her, and the question comes up, she'll (hopefully) no longer even think of wanting to say no.

That's just one of the things that jumped out at me here. I'd say you're probably right about what you wrote about your failures concerning physical escalation, sexual tension/vibe, etc., but this is hard to critique with so little information on what you did specifically. All I can say is there's plenty of ressources here that can help you. If there's one thing I can absolutely recommend it's the first technique described here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7odv5v/5_tips_to_improve_your_sex_game/

This is a life-saver to inflame desire in women. Also, the concept works perfectly well for anything else. Make her laugh then leave a bit, she'll be aware of the good emotions you gave her and how your absence took them away. Dance very close to her for a while, then retreat back to arm's length. Next time, she'll come to you. I hope you can see clearly how you can use all that to create tension. Remember, push and pull applies to everything, including physical contact. Kissing is about more than planting your lips on hers.

dec_cutter · 2018-01-31T01:07:14+00:00

Okay my thoughts:

A. I wouldn't do a swim just because it's TOO COMPLICATED. Assuming she does want to fuck you, immediately, the pool can cockblock you. Does she bring a suit? And a dress? Where does she change? Does her tummy look fat? (even if she's stick thin). She can't swim too well. Does coming right over make her seem slutty? Etc etc. Axe it. Your goal is to get to sex as smoothly as possible. NO COMPLICATIONS.

B. You could try asking her over to watch a movie or make a pizza (and then order Dominos) - although she'll know its code for fucking. Since you pushed so hard to fuck the first date, I'd play it subtle/ cooler. Invite her to a nearby bar for a drink or two. You don't want to appear desperate/ or trigger her anti-slut feelings. Then try the pull again after the date.

Okay now some recap of your prior moves-

First of all, not all women fuck on the first date. That doesn't mean you DID SOMETHING WRONG. It COULD mean that. It could be a woman who fucks on the first date, but you didn't play it right, so it didn't happen. But it could be, she just doesn't fuck on the first date and that's her rule, period. Keep that in mind. Be persistent when needed, but don't PULL PULL PULL, you need to add some PUSH. PUSH/ PULL. Otherwise you seem like a desperate cars salesman. Look up PUA push/ pull, it's a game fundamental. Even so, some women only fuck on date #2 or #3. You can wait and fuck her, or you overplay your hand and chase her away and never fuck her.
Sexual tension. You said there wasn't much? There can DEFINITELY be sexual tension with good conversation + laughter. Sexual tension = the unspoken but sorta obvious underlying feeling that you want to fuck the shit outta her, but won't can't say it. Smile at her. Give her the fuck me eyes. Pause for a bit. Let her "catch you" staring at her breasts for a half second, act like you're trying to cover it up and quickly carry on the conversation. Oh and makeouts are nice, but they can backfire. In that they can kill sexual tension if you aren't in a Fuck location (unless you pull back first, are reserved, push-pull, add mystery to whether you will be fucking later).
The invite back. Say two words with me. SUBTETLY. ... FAKE ... SUBTLETY. FAKE ... SUBTETLY. Let me explain. Any time you invite a girl back, it's obvious you want to fuck (unless she's socially retarded). NEVERTHELESS, it is YOUR DUTY to pretend like it's ANYTHING BUT SEX. It doesn't matter how far-fetched or fake. You want to listen to music. Get some coffee. Try your pirate rum. Video games. Flux capicator. Moon rocks. The girls know you're full of shit, but it makes her "not a slut." The only wrong move is put on a shit-eating grin and say "coming to bed? want some fuckee fuckee? hehehe." Yes it's obvious. No, you are NOT allowed to be logical. You aren't trying to fuck another man. Logic has no business here.
Hard to say, but yeah teasing is good. But also, don't fall into the trap of being "Mr. Entertainment" or trying to impress her. Yeah tell a few funny/ impressive stories, but let her do 60-80% of the talking. It's actually far easier to play the part of "Mr. Judgment" ... hmm Is she cool enough for me? Hot enough? Will I fuck her? You should at least pretend to have these thoughts and convey them to her symbolically. When she's trying to impress YOU (it's about frame, not your looks) -- you're golden. The vibe will be sexual, provided your a flirtatious horny man who lets her talk, and doesn't rush to ease tension, fill pauses, or make things comfortable, lol.

Good tip with the venues thing, yeah shit gets randomly closed all the time. Roll with it, plan B and plan C is pretty smart. Probably better since you get a little extra walk in to bullshit her, usually the walk + talk can go pretty well.

Tie5o11 · 2018-01-30T23:19:20+00:00

I am all for moving fast, but this notion that every first date should end in sex or its a failure seems pretty extreme to me. A lot of girls just wont put out on the first date (or maybe would on rare circumstance), but could become quality plates or even LTR's over time. That's just how a lot of women are.

For your first date, sure maybe you could have tried to pull earlier, or seeded it better, or whatever. But it sounds like you guys had a good first date and you were primed for a good outcome in a 2nd or 3rd date.

Self-honest · 2018-01-30T20:03:10+00:00

Matched a HB7 on Tinder, she messages me first.

Good sign of attraction.

After 4-5 messages of banter I tell her to get a drink on Sunday, she agrees and gives me her number.

I've noticed lately that meeting the day you respond offers the best chance of no flaking. If I'm not free, I don't respond until I'm ready to go out. Give her the place you're planning on being at and the time she should meet you there. It's more exciting for her if it all happens very fast. If she is busy, then I tell her that I'll let her know next time I'm planning something fun so she can join.

On Sunday she flakes but immediately reschedules for Monday night.

Bad for flaking, probably another dude she met on Tinder over the past few days. That's why I like same day dates.

We meet 6-7min away from the bar I chose, I greet with a hug and start some light conversation with some teasing and light kino here and there.

Nice. Good job. I re-read this the other day: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5fihmu/how_to_get_laid_like_a_warlord_37_rules_of/

13 and 14 - "You are enough" frame. You are a man. Tease her. Kino. Simply having testosterone and a dick does the trick for a girl who is already into you enough to go out with you.

We hit it off pretty well (similar fucked up sense of humor) and the conversation is really enjoyable and funny throughout the whole date. We reach the venue and it's closed, I have a plan B (and C) which works.

Good job. Logistics are key. Act like you are in charge and have a plan, even if you don't.

After getting some drinks and talking about travel stories, I start to escalate (probably 30-35 mins into the date). I hesitate a little bit to go for the kiss, but when I do she responds positively and we make out for a while.

Ok awesome. Great job. How long did you make out for? A while might be too long. Need to push and pull.

I stop and resume conversation while holding her tummy.

The fuck? Explain this.

We share "weird stories from Tinder"

No. This is your first date ever (sly look) or you don't kiss and tell (smirk).

and have another brief make out a little bit later (slightly more aggressive, I grab her thighs and pull her towards me).

This one should last longer. The first one should be cut short after you make a more aggressive move like your thigh grab move. This way you can gauge how receptive she is before the second kiss and escalate more effectively during round number two. If she wants you to keep going after the ass grab on kiss number one, then you pull back, she will be wanting even more when round two starts.

Last bit of advice, when you get a bit more "agressive," do something you would actually do during sex. Like the way you grab her ass for example. Then pull away. Round two, do it again early, then escalate further to kissing her neck, or grabbing her tits above the shirt. Everytime move a little further.

She pays for the drinks. I then decide to go for another venue, where we have some beer. Conversation is still going very well (she has been laughing at my jokes/stories for the entire date, and she had a good sense of humor as well which I enjoyed).

You're losing steam here. Should have gotten things hot and heavy on round two, then suggested she come back to your place for literally what the fuck ever little seed of interest you planted earlier in the night.

Make out in the venue for a while, then it's getting late and I want to try to bring her home (which was 5min away).

Fuck man, you're so close. Were you getting even more agressive or were you kissing her and "holding her tummy" like a little beta boyfriend?

She says something like "it's time to go to bed", and I reply "agreed, and you're coming with me" grinning. She laughs and says "nice try, but I'm not going home with you".

In the moment I know this seems smooth, but it's not. You let her make up her mind. You didn't lead her to your bed. You reacted to her. Got stale. Third venue should have probably been your place.

We get out the venue, I make out more and start grabbing her ass. No resistance whatsoever. I tell her: "you should come and chill at my place for a while". She replies: "no, I need to get back home".

"You should" sucks. I'm going to go do this fun thing at my place. Or just grab her by the hand and entertainingly lead her back to your place since you lived so close.

Also, you're making her feel like a slut in the bad way. Escalate and move behind the dumpster. Put her hand on your dick and see how she responds.

We make out a little more and I don't want to appear needy telling her to come over again. I give her a slap on her ass and tell her "have a good night then", and leave.

Yeah, good try at a save there. You gave up. She probably wanted to fuck you quite a few times throughout the evening.

She hasn't contacted/texted me since.

Doubt she will.

My current plan is to text her either tomorrow or the day after telling her to come over to my place for a swim (there's a pool) and then eat something out afterwards in the weekend. Is this the most optimal thing to do?

No. How long has it been? If she comes over to swim, have her order some food or bring something to cook with you, then fuck her. Don't go out to eat. Definitely don't go to your place and then go out to eat.

Possible mistakes I made:

I haven't escalated enough, could have tried to find a nice spot outside and be more aggressive with my touching making out. What could have I done to increase my chances to fuck her?

I covered my thoughts on this already.

Conversation was... too good? We had a lot of stuff in common and made each other laugh a lot, but there wasn't much sexual tension. This bothers me because I was genuinely being myself and enjoying it, but it didn't get her panties wet. I did tease/touch her and made out multiple times during the date, but I was going "against the flow" of the conversation, not with it. Any tips on how to avoid this in the future?

What do you mean against the flow of conversation? You want to polarize, tease, touch and use non-verbal communication to make her wet.

Maybe I was too "nice". I teased her and sometimes outright insulted her and she seemed to enjoy that, but it was only a few times during the date.

Don't be nice. You're not nice. You want to do bad things to this girl.

I felt like the vibe was more towards "two good friends having the time of their life sharing cool stories" than "two people that want to violently fuck each other".

Third option, "one girl having the time of her life sharing cool stories about her life and getting teased and turned on by one guy who wants to violently fuck her brains out."

Good work man. Keep hammering away, you'll perfect your craft.

PhaedrusHunt · 2018-01-30T23:34:26+00:00

Never know. One of my longest plates I didn't sleep with til date 3. Been seeing her for almlst a year. Not seeing her anymore, but it's because I'm actually interested in developing a real relationship with someone right now.

Abundance mentality is REALLY the key to everything. It's what will help you hold frame and pass shit tests even when you're monogamous.

High SMV, ability to dread game, ability to confidently next, not be needy-- all of it stems from abundance mentality.

That said, it could still go somewhere with this woman. You have to hit the sweet spot. Give her a text or call if it suits you. Tell her you have a busy week (I like to say to women straight up that my dance card is full, implying I'm fucking other women-- they like it), and name a time, date, and place.

If she says yes, cool. If she says no, text her one more time in a week or so. If she says no again, next.

In the meantime, spin more plates, work your game, work on yourself.

racethesunset · 2018-01-30T18:32:24+00:00

Regardless of making out, you were talking about her with other guys. That action builds orbiter trust, not alpha respect.

The close was problematic because it seemed forced. Next time you might want to portray abundance for the evening or week, “I have a huge day at the office tomorrow, but had a great time tonight”. In today’s hypergamy dating scene, girls, especially tinder sluts, don’t want to appear as such, so they might wait for a second or third date - even with Chad Thundercock. Give them a confident pass next time. They will swing back around to confidence in time.

Handsomebob103 · 2018-01-31T15:18:47+00:00

You did well with everything except you made it blatantly obvious that You wanted to fuck. Some girls are dtf some aren't. you need to have a reason to come back to your place so there is some plausible deniability. Sex needs to "just happen" that way she can hamster herself into thinking she isn't "like other girls". She hasn't hit you back up most likely cause she thinks your a hit and quiter looking for a ons off tinder. Give it a little bit then plan something else fun. Don't make it about sex and then have a reason to come back to your place. Give her a reason to Want to come back

prostaddict · 2018-01-30T18:32:39+00:00

Sounds like a long date - I feel like you could've skipped the last venue you went to (after she paid for drinks). You should give more plausible deniability with the recommendation to go back to your place as well. You were making out and feeling her up and only recommended going back to your place after she stated it was time for her to go home, which is the equivalent to forcing a kiss when you walk a girl to her car at the end of the night. It needs to come more natural

mml76gs · 2018-01-30T21:50:02+00:00

On Sunday she flakes but immediately reschedules for Monday night.

Capricious power play. If it was I, I'd "flake" on Monday, and tell her to reschedule it for the next Saturday (or another day of her choice).

** The missed lay, explanations:

1) There's a % of times it's gonna go awry, without any specific fault on your part

2) The quick-lay maximisation theory I like more is BlackDragon Blog's. He says to go very lightly about kino escalation. Just touch her a little during the first date.

It'll make her sexual desire build up, and you'll reap the crop on meeting-up the second time.

If you choose your course of action, you trigger her anti-slut shield, buyer's remorse, and a lot of background (unconscious or conscious) drives to avoid sex with you. As it happened.

BlackDragon's theory correctly assumes most women want to avoid a self-image of girls who give sex on the first night.

otikokoso · 2018-01-31T15:48:05+00:00

Mind yourself with escalation these days before you get Metoo'ed

be-ay-be-why · 2018-01-31T16:36:53+00:00

If she wanted to fuck, she would have. I think this way with every woman.

I come at females with ny true self and if there down, cool. If not, whatever and cool.

Everything is cool. U can read all you want about TRP and you may attract more women but you can't makd a girl fuck unless she wants too. There's really nothing for u to do but just chill and be COOL.

brucebannerstailor · 2018-01-31T20:03:36+00:00

That story made my dick flip inside out tbh. I’m not insulting you, just giving some honest analysis to help out. The first thing that made me stop was her paying for drinks. I would’ve played it so there was no opportunity to even bring up who was paying for it, you gotta just be the dominant one and be ready to take the check when the bitch drops it off. Don’t even make eye contact with the girl, just stare down the waiter and demand that check with eye contact and grab it without sayin shit.

Now you said you had your hand on her stomach after you guys were kissing, what was the context of this? Was it some like lovey dovey shit where your like caressing her or some shit? Or was it some intense making out which resulted with you grabbing a hold of the bitch? Cuz it sounds like you were being easy and delicate and that might have dried the bitch up.

I’ve been rambling so I’ll finish up with one last point. She never said she was not down to fuck, if you are giving the actual words that came out. Maybe you did and feel free to tell me to shut my dumb mouth if you did, but the bitch just kept saying I’ve gotta make it back to my house, she didn’t say shit about you not being there.

redvelvet_oreo · 2018-01-31T20:29:09+00:00

I agree with most of these comments. The only thing maybe you can do differently next time is instead of being so direct and telling her "she is coming with you" (which might work other times I didnt think it was a bad response) you could have made an excuse for her to come up to your place like getting another drink or some coffee. Come to your house to see your dog some shit that gives her an excuse to go up.

Mr-Ed209 · 2018-02-03T03:54:04+00:00

Im one for timed assertiveness. This post feels like you went all in too soon. You also have to almost have a check list of things to achieve - with number one being get her to a private place where you can fuck.

You could have used more plausible deniability in inviting her back to your place. I dont go for the make out until im sure set to get laid, it just kills the tension and signals your intent a bit too early. Escalate yes, but then when you see shes receptive back off. A few touches on her thigh that linger longer and longer are all you really need, then you make some excuse to invite her back to your place. Could be to drink some unique wine you have been given, show her your stamp collection - whatever. All that matters is the result that the 2 of you end uo alone at your place and slightly drunk.

A make out at your place after a good date is going to lead to sex if you dont fuck things up.

Hydwyn · 2018-02-03T07:52:24+00:00

You failed because your only goal was sex. As soon as you became needy she saw right through you. You're just another guy making jokes and telling stories to eventually fuck her. Women want you to listen to them and actually care about what they are saying. This takes time with any woman worth anything. Most aren't going to put out on a first date unless there are some exceptional circumstances, most of which are out of your control. Get yourself in check, before you leave for a date actually WANT to have that date. Care about the interaction with her, don't give away too much, be difficult to read, if you aren't into the date and just want pussy you'll fail almost every time.

zeaustin · 2018-02-09T22:52:59+00:00

Not a bad attempt. I’d keep it just to kino at the bars though. Sometimes going to fast gives her some doubts and you want her to have some plausible deniability.

Personally, I keep it to one venue and 2-3 drinks. Once your near the end of the last drink a good line I like to use is, “what are you doing after this?” Usually they will say nothing and that’s when you bring up going back to your place for more drinks/whatever.

Now once your back at our place, make her feel comfortable but that’s when I would attempt a more aggressive physical approach.

This technique has got me probably 90% first night lays on over 50 bumble/tinder hoes. Then again I am a handsome mother fucker.

Cheers mate

Roadhouse1984 · 2018-01-31T01:32:02+00:00

You spanked her was with no sexual tension. Do that after you fuck her.

I did that once (premature slap on ass)...got criticized on the spot and managed to pull it back because she still liked me in spite of it. Don't slap-rape her buttcheeks

ShinobiKrow · 2018-01-31T12:54:37+00:00

Don't ever go out with anyone who before even meet hasn't already agreed to having sex with you. It's a waste of time, unless you look like Brad Pitt and are confident you will definitely be able to swing any girl.

Grendel2017 · 2018-01-31T13:29:09+00:00

You sound like a potential rapist

Title	[FR] Tinder date, several makeouts but failed to F-close. Analysis of possible mistakes + questions.
Author	tayowsp
Upvotes	38
Comments	41
Date	January 30, 2018 6:01 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7u2wpa/fr_tinder_date_several_makeouts_but_failed_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/fr-tinder-date-several-makeouts-but-failed-to-f.48478 https://theredarchive.com/post/48478

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