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[–]AirPacker11 points12 points13 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Forget prenups. Google Asset-protection trust.
[–]mrmeyhemn4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
This. My assets are held in trust. Therefore not technically part of "my estate". Check out the book "how to avoid probate" by Norman f dacey. It's out of print but an excellent primer on estate/trust law.
To elaborate, trustees of a trust may manage funding for the beneficiary.
This leads me to your lineage. Have kids you know are yours? Are you the guy that was on top of his game, working hard and living your blue pill life only to have it crash into the madness that spawned red pill? Did you find red pill early and still want to procreate? Invest. Separate your liability and invest.
First and foremost, invest in your health, read for mental health, exercise for your physical health, use the strength gained from both and invest in your future. Do it for you. Women put the life forward, you are the one that created it, its what men do. We create, our lineage carries it forward. Your life is not yours, it is the burden of a MAN to see his lineage carry on, women only ride along if you let them.
[–]MochaShakaKhan 2 points2 points2 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
what are the downsides of a asset-protection trust as far as taxes, inheritance, any risks with it, etc. go? Dont' you need somsone who you can trust since the trust can't be for you?
[–]putsch805 points6 points7 points 10 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Potential downsides include:
The trust must usually be irrevocable and unchangeable, meaning that once the assets go in, you can't subsequently dissolve the trust, or really even change the terms of the trust instrument.
You (the settlor, i.e., trust creator) cannot serve as both sole trustee and beneficiary. That means that someone else is going to have control of the trust assets, as a co-trustee. There are some ways you can restrict powers of co-trustees, but that tends to be limited because if you have too much power on the trustee end, and our the sole beneficiary, the trust can be viewed as a sham and disregarded by the courts. There actually has to be a meaningful measure of control of the trust in another person besides yourself.
I think only around half the states in the US only recognize asset protection trusts. That could potentially lead to your state ignoring a trust that you have created under another state's laws.
what do you do when you don't have anyone you can trust (no pun intended) with your trust. Do you have your lawyer do it? I mean the only people I see worth entrusting it would be a mom or dad, but if they're not around, then it seems moot.
Also, trusts seem like they're for really rich people – is it worth going through the trouble of setting one up if you have say less than a million dollars in assets or less? What level of net worth do you need for a trust to be truly necessary?
[–]iamgodshand1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link
Depending on how much money you're talking about, you would go to a large law firm or bank. Specifically, they would direct you to fiduciary companies in Europe or Middle East (formerly Switzerland - not much anymore).
Trusts are actually quite important for a lot of people, e.g. you don't want your kids/widow to blow your money. You might set up a trust with an independent trustee to help you manage your estate should you be unable to do so.
[–]mrmeyhemn0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Taxes: As trustee you take on 0 liability for taxes, the trust account is a separate entity.
Inheritance: Person receiving trust is liable to taxation for capital gains tax. Should recipients allow funds to be reinvented recipients are liable only for tax on interest.
Risks: Limited liability as trustee. Full liability as recipient for taxes.
Lesson learned. Only trust estate attorneys you trust to also be cpa handle your estate. Read "how to avoid probate" for a primer in estate law.
Hint: Any competent estate attorney can build a trust that assumes liability for all taxation and throws $ at you monthly. With a little investment.
[–]squidracer 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Seen the movie Divorce corp yet?? Even if you ex wife doesn't get everything your lawyers will at least get a pretty big chunk
[–]HoundDogs1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I get the feeling that all the fighting and blaming and shitty family court laws is specifically designed by and for lawyers. Both sexes think one or the other is to blame when really it's just the lawyers taking them both to the cleaners.
[–]sir_wankalot_here1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You go to buy a car, is the salesman there for his best interests or to make sure he sells you a car which has as many extras as possible so he makes as much money as possible ?
Lawyers want to make as much money as possible. So if there are several possible ways the lawyer can do something he will recommend the most expensive. So just like when you buy a car, your research. Get multiple opinions, ask questions.
[–]MarlboroMan6210 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
ill share some of my experiences. ive been married twice, both marriages failed miserably, not my fault, but i picked the wrong women and that was my fault.
one will have a couple of major barriers that you must be aware of. if you have kids, its going to be tough, no way around that. also, you want to be aware of your time barrier. im in florida, and anything over 7 years is considered a long term marriage and treated more harshly than a short term marriage. im fortunate, both of mine were short term and no children involved.
know the following: keep your house in your name, if your marriage works out, if you become deceased, there wont be any problem, all your assets go to the wipe anyway, no muss, no fuss.
joint accounts: know that she can clean out the joint account if her name is on it. it doesnt matter that you earmark that money for stupid stuff like food and paying bills. her lawyer is going to suggest that she clean out the account because they want to get a piece of that action and get paid.
if you run short of dough, the lawyers have enough pull to put everything on hold until the money comes through, they want to get paid.
important documents: i would keep all important documents in a safe place, the first thing she will do once she decides to pull the trigger is clean out the joint account and grab all the documents and take to the lawyer so they can start scheming what your worth and start salavating like pablo's f****** dog.
i would never file my taxes jointly, but thats just me, i just dont trust any woman that much and if they got any irs shit going on, you can bet they wont tell you about it until you get that white envelope in the mail or they inform you at work about the garnishe thing.
be prepared to keep some type of journal of her bad behavior. they will tell you that in a no fault state that it doesnt matter but if your lawyer will present it, and the judge reads it, the judge cant unread it and unknow what you tried to tell them. it cant hurt. besides, your lawyer will have a better idea of what they dealing with. that will save them time and save you money
always keep an emergency stash of cash and an emergency credit card, if she manages to kick you out, you gonna have to eat.
be prepared to let her have anything she wants, its better for you in the long run, you dont want to be paying a lawyer 200.00 per hour as you and her fight over steak knives. chances are high that everything you let her have, she will piss it away in 2 years time and you can have a chuckle out of that.
any legal papers she gives you in person arent worth the paper they printed on, it is highly likely she will try to deceive you and leave something important out. if she files first, go to the clerk of the court and get real copies for 10 cents a page.
shop around for a lawyer, get references from friends. some lawyers will give you a free consulation, others will want about 200 bucks just to talk. some will tell you they gonna think about it and decide if they will take you on as a client.
pay attention to your lawyers legal assistant. they will be doing all the leg work and that who you will be dealing with the most. if you feel good with them, you will be in good shape.
my first lawyer did me well, we had quite a bit of crap to deal with but they did good. when i went back to her the 2nd time, she had a new receptionist who acted like she didnt care if i lived or died. her fee also doubled. had to shop around for another lawyer.
once the trigger is pulled, be prepared that all her friends and relatives going to take her side, no matter what, facts be damned, but that how women are, it can be frustrating but forewarned is forewarned.
very important for the husband to get a lawyer. if you draw a bad judge, your lawyer will wait for them to go out of town and then submit important paper work to the substitute judge to get it pushed through.
once the trigger is pulled, you will get a general order that will include no going out and spending money on anything not urgent or neccessary. pay attention to that, you dont want a contempt of court charge.
if the wipe goes out of state, file in your county asap so that you can play by its rules and your local lawyers and not deal with all the out of state stuff. if she goes out of state, she will have to reside there 6 months before she can file in her local county.
the 21 day requirement to do this and 15 day requirement to do that only applies to you, not to her, be patient and put a little faith in your lawyer.
[–]apackofwankers4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link
For my part, I had a Prenup that pretty much said she got nothing. We were both professionals with decent salaries. Opened a joint bank account, but never used it. I was pretty generous to her when we split, forking out to get her an apartment and establish it. I let her take whatever she wanted from the house. 10 years later, she loaned me some money to cover a cash squeeze. We are still good friends.
[–]DomoDoge92 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I think if you are both equal that helps a lot. How did your prenup not get thrown out by the judge though? Thats good you guys are still friends.
[–]apackofwankers1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
There was no judge. We just did the paperwork. She knew the deal.
The prenup basically said that assets before marriage belonged to the respective owners. I had a lot of assets through inheritance, she just had debts. She knew she wouldnt have access to the inherited assets.
Basically, it was an amicable separation after an 8 year dead bedroom marriage.
The really weird thing is that, ive asked her several times what happened to our sex life, and even 10 years since we divorced, the best she can come up with is "it wasnt you, it was me" followed by shutting the conversation down.
[–]DomoDoge92 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Thats good to hear it didn't get thrown out. I think there may have been another man involved.
[–]apackofwankers1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yes, I am pretty sure there was another man.
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That sucks, im surprised she wouldn't admit to it 10 years after the divorce
[–]Glenbert0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I hope you didn't pay money for that "prenup." Premarital and inherited assets aren't marital assets.
Unless the attorneys I've spoken with were lying to me.
[–]apackofwankers1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It was 20 years ago, I really don't remember all the details of the prenup.
It served the purpose of making things absolutely clear before we got married, and as a result, there was no argument in the divorce.
In fact, if anyone is considering marriage, the act of creating your own vows and prenup, is a great way to clarify expectations.
[–]Glenbert0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Creating your own prenup is a great way to build an utterly false sense of security. I've seen guys on this forum who believe that you can eliminate child support via prenup.
[–]apackofwankers0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It was made by a lawyer - the broad strokes of it were decided at the same time we wrote our vows.
[–]Glenbert1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Fair enough. Comment was intended more so for others reading this than you specifically.
[–]GuitarHero070 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They both earned good salaries so the ex-wife wouldn't have had a major drop in lifestyle. It probably would have been different if there was a huge difference in incomes.
[–]PlusGoody4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Here's what I've seen work.
A properly done pre-nup. I've posted before about what it is required for that, but the bottom line is that a pre-nup done the way they are supposed to be done in your state is going to hold up nine times out of ten.
Don't be at fault -- although "no fault" is the law, when the divorce is because you left for another woman, got caught cheating, or were abusive or neglectful in an objective (and not bullshit complaint way), your ex will be vindictive and the court will sympathize with her. The flip side of that -- her being obviously at fault -- can benefit you, but less reliably. Courts have ZERO sympathy for men who have been abused, but when she leaves you for a richer, better looking guy she and her lawyers will often be munificent and the court a tad intolerant of her trying to put the screws to you. As a practical matter women don't want their bad behavior in the public record, which helps as well.
Playing for custody. The law has changed in recent years to make custody more gender neutral, so this is possible, and 50 / 50 physical custody is probable if you want it. With full custody she pays you child support, and at 50/50 there's no child support paid. This blows up the emotional and economic basis of divorce for a lot of women. I have seen more than once women BEGGING for mercy when they realized they wouldn't have the kids half the time AND would get none of their husband's income AND would need to pay rent on 3-bedroom apartment if they wanted to keep even 50/50 custody. (No suitable home = no overnight with your kids.) When this happens, they end trading away everything else in order to get their husband down to every other weekend and holiday and two weeks in the summer plus standard child support.
Her being from a rich or prominent family. I've seen divorces wrap up in weeks with fair or even favorable splits of assets, zero alimony, everyone happy with child custody, visitation and support, because wife's rich dad basically doesn't want any legal exposure or publicity. Here is helps to have a very aggressive lawyer who puts a scare into rich dad.
Being smart about the long-term value of assets, and being lucky if your wife hired a lawyer who has no analytical ability. Guys often buy out hugely valuable professional, business or career assets, insurance policies, pensions, etc. with the much-less-valuable equity in their houses and cars, because their wife just wants to keep the house and car.
good info, especially the whole rich and prominent family thing.
[–]grewapair0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The 50/50 custody only works if she makes about as much as you do.
California has an online child support calculator.
I entered 50/50 custody with one spouse earning $1M a year and the other earning $50K. Even with 50/50 custody, the higher earning spouse owes the lower earning spouse $50K per year, as if it costs that much to raise the kid.
[–]MoarPill19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
The best solution that is 100% effective is to not get married.
[–]boston_of_gilead 17 points17 points17 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I rarely take issue with TRP, but when I do it is for exactly this reason.
Married men come on here asking for guidance and someone invariably spouts off that he shouldn't have gotten married. Is OP supposed to hop in his time machine and go not get married? Is that the constructive solution married men who found TRP after the fact are supposed to derive from such responses?
What's worse is that such responses then get voted to the top while offering nothing of value. If OP is asking about how to avoid divorce rape, don't you think he has already figured out that marriage is a bad idea?
Something I hear on here alot if the importance of developing male friendships... Yet here is OP, a voice crying out for assistance, and what does he get? Snark. Glib, trite answers.
[–]1whatsazipper8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link
The mention not to get married is invariably for the onlooker, not the married person in question.
[–]icallmyselfmonster2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also it shows the person hasn't read the body of text.
[–]MoarPill1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
OP himself said "AWALT dont get married" and not once did he mention in his text he was married. He may just be looking to see if there is any loopholes and considering getting married to a girl. You're making as many assumptions as I am.
[–]boston_of_gilead 1 points1 points1 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're making as many assumptions as I am.
Not much in the way of assumptions, OP left us with lots of clues visible in his post. In his post, particularly where he used the word "us" in the second paragraph. The case is easy to build from there.
A quick examination of his post history confirms that he is going through a divorce as we speak. Reddit won't let me link anything from within Reddit.
[–]DomoDoge92 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
I am going through a divorce right now. Yes, I do regret getting married and I still have to deal with the consequences of that. The reason I made this post was because I was curious how others avoided divorce rape, like I am.
Thanks for chiming in OP. I also discovered TRP after getting married and I'm waiting out a state residency requirement to file for divorce. However I was married and divorced long ago also, and in that situation, she made more than I did so divorce rape wasn't an issue.
As I approach divorce #2, I can tell you this much: keep things civil. As already stated, let her have the dinner plates and the couch if she wants them. Through divorce you are buying your freedom, your self-determination, and that is priceless. Who cares if she cheated or stole your car or whatever. The objective is now a peaceful conclusion to the mistake of marriage, and hopefully she won't ask for alimony.
Regardless, be ready for mixed emotions after. On one hand it's party time, on the other hand you do need to grieve what was. Avoid relationships with women, just focus on lifting, self-improvement, and friendships with men for a while. Get laid when you can, but don't pursue relationships. That was my mistake that led to marriage #2- I learned pickup and initially used it to get laid and ended up using it to get a girlfriend as the holidays approached.
[–]DomoDoge92 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link
Things aren't that bad for me, we have resolved all the issues, plus we are both poor. And knowing what I now know about the divorce system and how easy I am getting off, there is no way in hell I will be getting married again. I am actually the one who initiated the divorce after finding TRP, going through the stages and realizing how brainwashed and screwed up I was.
My wife was your typical bitchy, "empowered" former CC rider with a multitude of red flags. Good points on the aftermath.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Great lawyer, good luck finding one. Have deep pockets, if you're poor you get fucked. Document everything. It might not matter, but do it anywaybecause it might save your ass. Never be nice, never trust her to do the right thing, and don't let her talk you into anything. Read the laws regarding divorce in your state, the court will do anything it wants because they stand to profit from you paying child support.
You're still going to get fucked, but hopefully you don't get fucked like I did.
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Actually we've already resolved all the issues and my lawyer is drawing up the final paperwork. She makes more than me so no asset division or alimony. And no kids so no child support.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Then you're not going to be divorce raped. So who cheated?
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
No one, cheated what happened is that I woke up, and stopped putting up with her.
[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That is refreshing to hear. Your post was deleted before I could read it, thanks for the clarification.
[–]moodyprism 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Not true. There is common law marriage.
[–]MoarPill4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This doesnt really exist anymore, at least not in the states. Research it, you'll see most states dont recognize that, and beyond that you have to not only live like you're married, but actually present to the world that you're married, ie wedding rings, referring to yourselves and husband and wife..etc
See: http://usmarriagelaws.com/search/united_states/common_law_marriage/
[–]ComradeCynic3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Unfortunately some states are being pushed to have "de facto" common law, where in as little as 6 months, sharing only say rent on an apartment, she can divorce rape you. They term it "domestic partners" or "cohabitation" however. This hasn't happened yet ,but, given the retroactive nature of such a law if passed, it is something to keep in mind.
One solution: have a separate PO Box or other address at which you receive all your mail, and have a written rental agreement with your live-in gf, to show she was paying rent.
[–]MoarPill0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I do believe you should do a PO box and rental agreement as I was just lucky in this situation, the cop was cool asked my then gf to leave and she did. He advised since she had received mail there she had status and he couldnt physically remove her.
With that said I have not heard of any defacto common law marriages in the US, can you site your source?
[–]sir_wankalot_here0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That is BP thinking. Using your reasoning better to never leave your house. There are a few guys here who avoided divorce rape, listen to what they said.
[–]1whatsazipper3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not currently sensible to get married in the US.
[–]TheMGhandi2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Search around and you'll find a lot of knowledge about divorce-rape.
Posting in ASKTRP is probably going to get you more attention, seeing as most of the posts aren't all so well-written.
[–]jaimewarlock 3 points3 points3 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When my first wife divorced me, I told her that if she continued to ask for alimony/child support, that I would move to another country. She knew I was serious and was much easier to deal with after that.
[–]DomoDoge92 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I think this is honestly your best option for avoiding divorce rape, its not like they're going to send the Navy SEALS to get you.
[–]Philhelm1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
And if they did, that would be a cool story, or an honorable death if things go sideways during the encounter.
[–]DomoDoge92 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But seriously, theres not much she can do if you're in another country. Especially if she doesn't know which one.
This is why estate protection is needed. If your estate is in trust it becomes non negotiable in divorce proceedings. The $ has a purpose and cant be deviated from said purpose at the whim of a good girl gone gold digger.
[–]DaphneDK0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I lived in Denmark. No divorce rape there. No lawyer, no prenup, also not-crazy woman (well you know the scale starts at 4, so reasonable crazy woman).
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Denmark huh? I figured that divorce rape would be worse than the USA.
[–]DaphneDK1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yes one should think so. But no. Not even Sweden, which to be sure is a feminist hell hole in many ways, have any of the stories which I hear come out of the USA. There is a division of property (since I started my companies afterwards, not a problem for me), but alimony is very rare (only +20 year marriage, etc.) and only for a limited period at that, and child support is set at some low minimum payment, not whatever expensive lifestyle the child may or may not have become accustomed to.
Another thing which might surprise you, abortion is much more restriced here than in the USA. 12 week sharp cut-off limit, some places of Denmark abortion is illegal unless the mothers life is in physical danger.
Holy shit, I had no idea about any of that. Although the USA the divorce system has become a lucrative industry due to the lawyers that stand to make an absolute killing. I imagine your divorce rate is lower than ours as well if that is the case.
[–]n4gss 1 points1 points1 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well, in my case, if anything it was her that got raped. I had a perfect clean break. I was asked to move out and after all my bullshit whining and crying, I moved out. She did take my truck keys before I moved out and got that but, I was left with a reliable, paid off car that was all mine so, no payment. The house was in her name so, once again, no payment. But I did take just about everything out of the house when I moved. Except for the few things that was in her name and weren't paid off. I went to see a lawyer for a $300 consultation fee. She waived it after she heard me out. Saw her a second time after I was served with papers. Still didn't charge me. In the end, I never spent a dime on the divorce. I actually could have gotten alimony and made her life hell but decided it was going to be best to just GTFO clean. That would've been a bit beta as well. Still would be funny to get a $10 alimony check every month just because.
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Always good to hear stories like this. Ten dollars is all you would have gotten though?
[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 10 years ago | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
Well thats something. Do you live in Japan?
[–]redditmoose 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Did for a long time, it's where we met.
[–]Electric_Romeo-1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Abstinence (from marriage) I assume is the best method.
just like a lot of other things
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[–]TheMGhandi2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jaimewarlock 3 points3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DomoDoge92 2 points3 points4 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Philhelm1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]DomoDoge92 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mrmeyhemn0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DaphneDK0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]DaphneDK1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]n4gss 1 points1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points | Copy Link
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]redditmoose 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Electric_Romeo-1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]DomoDoge92 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link