Marrying The Red Pill and Feminism

iggybdawg · 2014-01-22T07:18:22+00:00

I forget where I saw it, whether on this sub or another, but there was a recent psych study that showed many women view people as misogynists when those people actually simply lacked benevolent sexism.

You'll see many haters saying the red pill is all misogyny, when in fact it's trying to sort out the truth of what the average woman is really like, after finding that popular stereotypes are wrong.

[deleted] · 2014-01-22T07:16:38+00:00

Over time, what happened to me was an acceptance that the core tenets of both red pill and feminism are true; men and women are different creatures with different value systems and biological imperatives - but we're also equal in value, importance and rights.

I'll upvote this because I agree with the heart of what you're saying. However, I just gotta express my gripe with how the notion that all humans have (or should have) dignity and free will, is simply "feminism" now. I think that's clearly untrue at this point, no? I mean, shit like Patriarchy Theory and Privilege is just a rhetorical mind fuck meant to make women seem powerless and then blame it on men. It's a destructive ideology in the context of team people...

We see examples of this all the time in NA:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1vdfzw/getting_sick_of_the_feminists_on_facebook_ladies/cerencs

In your own country, not only do we hear stories of the "men tax" and such things, but there's even been intellectually dishonest scientific institutes who had to be exposed before they were defunded.

http://www.turtlebayandbeyond.org/2012/homosexuality/nordic-countries-defund-gender-ideology/

That's a great documentary by the way;

http://youtu.be/AZoRihmI1Ug

I just think that we should be allowed to believe in ideals of freedom, liberty and equal rights among all people without someone calling me a feminist and associating me with a bunch of nutters. You should want that as well.

The term "feminist" has too much baggage.

theldron · 2014-01-22T07:10:02+00:00

Women are biologically inclined to be hypergamous, the only thing feminism has done is try to suppress men's biologically inclined territorial jealousy. Women are naturally attracted to alphas because they will create a better progeny not because of gender roles...

fiat_lux_ · 2014-01-22T07:43:26+00:00

Some of the things you have said are reasonable. You lost most of your credibility with me, however, when you said this:

Due to the gender roles that are imposed upon us by society, women are conditioned to be hypergamous. I don't think this is part of their biology, but something that they're conditioned to be.

This type of "blank slate" thinking is wrong. It's the same line of thought that makes people try to do things like raise their male children as girls and vice versa. Some significant portion of male and female psychology i based on their genetics, and women are no more socially conditioned to be sexually hypergamous than men are socially conditioned to like a waist:hip ratio of .7.

Ideas like this lead to a society full of weak men and disorderly women.

aussiehank · 2014-01-22T09:27:17+00:00

it's those evil gender roles that feminism hates so much that make them hypergamous.

That is why we need to discuss specifically hypergamy, far and wide; to offend as many feminists, betas as possible.

Meanwhile on Red Pill Island, the women deliberately marry when young, marry older men, stay fit and in shape, and offer plenty of sex.

Poolside, everyone ;)

[deleted] · 2014-01-22T15:14:07+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SigmaMu · 2014-01-22T07:31:56+00:00

From the sidebar: The Misandry Bubble

The Myth of Female Oppression : All of us have been taught how women have supposedly been oppressed throughout human existence, and that this was pervasive, systematic, and endorsed by ordinary men who presumably had it much better than women. In reality, this narrative is entirely fabricated. The average man was forced to risk death on the battlefield, at sea, or in mines, while most women stayed indoors tending to children and household duties. Male life expectancy was always significantly lower than that of females, and still is.

Warfare has been a near constant feature of human society before the modern era, and whenever two tribes or kingdoms went to war with each other, the losing side saw many of its fighting-age men exterminated, while the women were assimilated into the invading society. Now, becoming a concubine or a housekeeper is an unfortunate fate, but not nearly as bad as being slaughtered in battle as the men were. To anyone who disagrees, would you like for the men and women to trade outcomes?

Most of this narrative stems from 'feminists' comparing the plight of average women to the topmost men (the monarch and other aristocrats), rather than to the average man. This practice is known as apex fallacy, and whether accidental or deliberate, entirely misrepresents reality. To approximate the conditions of the average woman to the average man (the key word being 'average') in the Western world of a century ago, simply observe the lives of the poorest peasants in poor countries today. Both men and women have to perform tedious work, have insufficient food and clothing, and limited opportunities for upliftment.

As far as selective anecdotes like voting rights go, in the vast majority of cases, men could not vote either. In fact, if one compares every nation state from every century, virtually all of them extended exactly the same voting rights (or lack thereof) to men and women. Even today, out of 200 sovereign states, there are exactly zero that have a different class of voting rights to men and women. Any claim that women were being denied rights than men were given in even 0.1% of historical instances, falls flat.

It is already wrong when a contemporary group seeks reparations from an injustice that occurred over a century ago to people who are no longer alive. It is even worse when this oppression itself is a fabrication. The narrative of female oppression by men should be rejected and refuted as the highly selective and historically false narrative that it is. In fact, this myth is evidence not of historical oppression, but of the vastly different propensity to complain between the two genders.

LonelySavage · 2014-01-22T13:31:50+00:00

have always been a firm believer that women are people, too

Sorry, but this is extremely dumb. Just because some is a "people" it doesn't mean there cannot be a hiearchy with them ranking lower, or they cannot be submissive, or they cannot accept a mans authority or anything.

I mean this is the height of progressive, liberal stupidity to think that for example in the past like feudalism where society was more hierarchical they did not treat people lower ranking than themselves as people. Of course they did: as people, as lower ranking people.

In other words, just what the fuck "are people" mean? Why do you ever have to buy into the bullshit that being a "people" means you have to treat them equally?

I mean in any sane society even men don't treat each other equally. There are higher ranking ones, and lower ranking ones.

This is such a dumb slogan.

There is nothing ever inherently wrong with hierarchy between humans. The point is to use the hierarchy right, like in feudalism: those on top owe protection and guidance to those in bottom, and those in bottom owe respect and loyalty to those in top. To never abuse authority, and to never disrespect it.

Equal rights is a meaningless slogan: people need different things.

Equal value is even more a meaningless, bullshitty political slogan: value means suitability for a purpose and a surgeon is suitable for different purposes than an artist, so human value is neither equal nor unequal it is UNDEFINED, a meaningless term.

Please stop all this shit. This is just conditioning.

I know what you are trying, you are trying to be good. Be good. You don't need ideology like egalitaianism or shit like "equal value" to be good. To be good, just decide what other people including women need, and give it to them. If you think they need help, help them. If you think they need leadership, lead them. If you think you can help them most by saying no to them, say no to them. That is all in how to be good. You don't need to be egalitarian to be good.

Egalitarianism just poisons your brain, replaces critical thinking with meaningless slogans. If you want to be good, compassionate, decent, just simply work hard on giving other people what you think they need most. What you think, not they think - you are a man, therefore a leader.

"For example: we should get the same pay for performing the same job despite genders"

No, we should not. Basically you are saying the world is just or ought to be. You crazy? People usually get raises because they demand them aggressively not because they deserve them. Women are less aggressive, hence get less money. So? This is just the normal injustice of the world that spoils go to the strong. What the fuck you want, a just world where everybody gets what they deserves? First of all it is boring as shit - what would masculine men fight for afterwards, and what can we do instead of fighting? :) And second who can do that? God? Socialism? Why not accept an imperfect world?

Women shouldn't need to be worried about rape on a daily basis

So cut back on immigration.

Due to the gender roles that are imposed upon us by society

And where does that come from? Social constructivism is a weasel world. Either man up and instead of society you can say "power", or you can say biology. But power itself comes from the biological male drive to acquire power. If kings create social constructs, kings exist because of the biological reality of us being men and thus like to be dominant. So every social construct is reducible to biology.

Many proponents of Red Pill seem to consider the woman to be an object to be valued only by her ability to be a receptacle for you to masturbate in.

This is incredibly backwards. The guys you refer to don't even think about stuff like value or people being objects or not. They just love sex, that is all. When Red Pill men actually think about the value of women, they think about loyal, honest and submissive wives, great mothers, so generally much higher stuff. Some - not all - redpillers fuck sluts, but not respect them. All redpillers respect honest, loyal wives and caring mothers, even when some don't want to marry them.

To me; men and women are human beings with equal - but different - thoughts, values and ideals.

The political brainwashing you may have received, it is crazy. Please drop everything and travel to a sane place like Poland or Hungary. You learn a thing or two. At any rate, just take out that "equal" please. Neither equal nor unequal. Just different. Why do you have to ASSUME these ideals, thoughts are equal? Just learn what they are make up your mind about valuing them.

due to the societal pressure for us to conform to gender roles

Don't overvalue societal pressure. Societal pressure works on social people. The extroverts. I was always a misanthropic introvert who gave no fucks about what others think still think in traditional gender norms.

Also, check anthropology, as in, human universal.

BurningRage7 · 2014-01-23T13:28:08+00:00

I would highly recommend downloading a PDF version of The Book of Pook, which essentially describes what you are suggesting. Im half way through it myself, and its like the Red Pill, but without the hate.

[deleted] · 2014-01-22T11:32:10+00:00

You can the man out of Sweden, but you can't take the Sweden out of the man.

SgtBrutalisk · 2014-01-22T14:49:26+00:00

I've been able to find a very comfortable balance

No. Get out of your comfort zone. And please, for the love of God, think before you post.

Title	Marrying The Red Pill and Feminism
Author	LonelySavage
Upvotes	1
Comments	41
Date	January 22, 2014 6:36 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1vu16c/marrying_the_red_pill_and_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/marrying-the-red-pill-and-feminism.10274 https://theredarchive.com/post/10274

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