[Request] I would like more on Power Talk

bicepsblastingstud · 2014-10-13T14:02:16+00:00

Let me preface this with a caveat: Powertalk is very misunderstood by most of TRP. The original author was writing about dynamics in the workplace, not about dynamics between men and women. Powertalk, according to Mr. Rao, is conversation concerned with the transfer of power. If there are no stakes on the table, there can be no powertalk.

To some extent, I disagree.

What follows is a slightly "twisted" definition of powertalk. This is my take on the subject, modified slightly to be applicable to interactions outside the workplace. If you want to know what the creator of powertalk thinks, you should go read his articles.

Powertalk Defined
Powertalk is deliberate, weaponized conversation: the intentional use of word choice, phrasing, and ambiguity to benefit the speaker. There are many ways in which powertalk can be utilized-

Maintaining ambiguity and plausible deniability
Getting information from somebody
Concealing your own intentions / protecting your own information
Communicating with other powertalkers

...and many more examples. Nearly any deliberate use of conversation to gain an advantage falls under my definition of powertalk.

Who uses powertalk?
In the author's conception, powertalk is the language of what he terms "Sociopaths." Since the author's series is framed around "The Office," he defines Sociopaths as

...Darwinian/Protestant Ethic will-to-power types who drive an organization to function despite itself.

Essentially, Sociopaths (by his definition) are the C-level executives, the people who really make a company run. The people who skirt the rules and make the important decisions.

Since we aren't concerned with the machinations of a corporation here at TRP, I have another term I'm going to substitute: the Informed.

For our purposes, someone Informed is someone who understands that a game is being played, whereas someone Clueless is taking words at face value.

If you've subscribed here for a bit, you're probably well on the way to being Informed. Do you understand why we say "pay attention to what girls do, not what they say?" More importantly, can you explain why women tend to reach "truth by consensus," rather than "truth by proof of evidence?"

The answer to both is that women tend to have an innate feel for powertalk and gametalk, and excel at "playing the game." Men, on the other hand, tend to prefer straight talk, and need to consciously become Informed.

The sexes clash when an Informed woman is powertalking, and a Clueless man is straighttalking. The Informed woman will consider the Clueless male completely lost, and sigh about how he "just doesn't get it." The Clueless male, for his part, will be hopelessly confused; interpreting her powertalk incorrectly, he takes her words at face value and gets burned.

For a better understanding of how powertalk actually works, let's look at how powertalk is applied.

Powertalking with Women
It's a rare woman who intentionally powertalks. Instead, powertalk seems to be most women's natural method of communication. Women value each other on social standing, and powertalk serves as a shield from negative social repercussions. You may notice that "loner"-type women --tomboys, etc.-- tend to use quite a bit of straight talk, while popular girls rarely utter a word that isn't powertalk.

Recall that powertalking is the intentional use of conversation to benefit or prevent harm to the speaker. Since social standing is everything for women, they generally use powertalk defensively to protect their social standing.

Defensive use of powertalk is characterized by ambiguity and plausible deniability. To steal an example from /u/joncho:

The post about the OKCupid girl finding a guy too nice.

The problem was not that the guy was too nice, the problem was that the guy is boring. Too nice is code for boring.

So now the question is: why not say it as it is? Because by directly criticizing the guy she can get in trouble if he finds out. Instead she uses a compliment while blaming herself for the problem. There is no problem with the guy, he is nice, she has the problem. In reality she is saying he is boring to anyone who can read the real message but without risk.

The desire for defensive ambiguity is why a woman will rarely commit to an opinion without knowing how her social group feels. A hard statement removes all ambiguity and puts her in an exposed position -- if it turned out that her social group held the opposite opinion, it would reflect very negatively on her.

In summary, women powertalk defensively, maintaining plausible deniability and ambiguity in order to protect their social standing. Powertalking back is generally unnecessary. Instead, simply use your knowledge to understand why women say what they say and see past it.

Powertalking in the Workplace
Powertalking in the workplace is much more interesting. This is where we really start to see the "dance" of two powertalkers attempting to maneuver for position.

Of particular interest is the fact that a junior member of the workplace can use powertalk to communicate to a senior member that they are worthy of special consideration. Very few people have the savvy to effectively powertalk, and those who do are generally found in the higher ranks of management.

Powertalk in the workplace is typified by

Protecting your own information and attempting to gain information from others.
Communicating information "in code" to other powertalkers.
Communicating to other powertalkers that you know how to play the game.

Examine carefully Mr. Rao's analysis from the original articles:

At a Dunder-Mifflin management party, shortly after Michael and Jan disclose their affair to David Wallace, per HR requirements, Wallace casually invites Jim to blow off the party for a while and shoot hoops in the backyard. Once outside, Wallace nonchalantly asks, “So what’s up with Jan and Michael?” He is clearly fishing for information, having observed the bizarre couple dynamics at the party.

Jim replies, “I wouldn’t know…(pregnant pause)…where to begin.” (slight laugh)

David Wallace laughs in return. This is as eloquent as such a short fragment of Powertalk can get. Here are just some of the messages being communicated by the six words and the meaningful pause and laugh.

It is a complex situation (literal).

I understand you think something bizarre is going on. I am confirming your suspicion. It is a bizarre mess, and you should be concerned.

This is the first significant conversation between us, and I am signaling to you that I am fluent in Powertalk.

I know how to communicate useful information while maintaining plausible deniability.

I am not so gratified at this sign of attention from you that I am going to say foolish things that could backfire on me.

I am aware of my situational leverage and the fact that you need me. I am not so overawed that I am giving it all up for free.

I am being non-committal enough that you can pull back or steer this conversation to safer matters if you like. I know how to give others wiggle room, safe outs and exits.

You still have to earn my trust. But let’s keep talking. What do you have that I could use?

How do I powertalk?
The first key to effectively powertalking is understanding when to use it. If you don't have a reason to powertalk, you're just going to confuse people. Generally speaking, straight talk is valued in men, so carefully evaluate if powertalk is the right choice.

Second, deliberately choose which tactics to use and when, based on your goals and who you're speaking with. Some considerations:

Defensive Powertalk

Does plausible deniability benefit you, or would it make you seem afraid to commit?
Is ambiguity a good idea, or will you seem like you don't know what you're talking about?

Offensive Powertalk

Do you want to leave the other person "wiggle room," or are you trying to lock them into a hard statement?
Do you need to reveal some information of your own in a quid pro quo, or can you get the information that they are holding without letting the other party have any of yours?
Are you trying to signal to another Informed person that you know how to "play", or are you trying to maneuver around somebody Clueless?

What you won't be able to do is start building layers of nuance into every single statement. Instead, simply seek to consider the ramifications of what you're saying, and whether you get any benefit from the words coming out of your mouth.

SgtTRP · 2014-10-13T12:28:04+00:00

Powertalk happens only when there is power. There is power only when there is something real to be exchanged.

Advice like puff out your chest, raise your voice or look at people like you're going to kill them are stupid. You can't fake powertalk.

Powertalk is conveying multiple meanings in a single message. And these extra layers of information are about the exchange of values, power.

In the absence of power, all those smart words devolve into gametalk.

People should stop ranting about shit they don't know enough about.

cali_gunner · 2014-10-13T11:47:35+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Overkillengine · 2014-10-13T17:01:41+00:00

In thread example: people desperately trying to re-frame powertalk as passive aggressive pussyfooting are ironically engaging in the very thing they seem to detest!

Johnny_Fake-Name · 2014-10-13T12:07:13+00:00

A few basics...

Power talk shows confidence. So eliminate certain phrases that don't do this. "I'm not sure", "I don't know, whatever you want to do", etc. Your words should show decisiveness and confidence in yourself.

Giving commands without being douchey: If your commands are too overt, it oftentimes leads to confrontation and resentment (unless you are so superior that they are your slave/concubine/shoeshine boy). Simple things like "Come here" if used in a normal tone don't come across as very overt commands, but they are acknowledged as such on a subconscious level, so if done right they will cement your superiority. "Hey what's up man, come here". Notice how it is a command if you are perceived alpha and a request if seen as beta. Commands like "go get this" require a lot higher SMV/worship, so unless you are a god give commands evenly to everyone (including yourself). "You go get forks from the trolley and I'll get some napkins." Now, your orders aren't singling someone out in a very overt fashion, everyone gets their commands (INCLUDING YOURSELF; THAT IS IMPORTANT). The diffusion makes people more likely to accept them. Avoid snapping fingers and commanding in an Old-Testament God voice.

Eliminate self-deprecating humor: Quickest way to go overboard and back to beta territory. Occasional humor is fine, but using yourself as a punching bag just tears you down, especially if it's your only way of cracking jokes. With humor in general, there's a sweet line between being a funny guy and a class clown. Too much and you end up in beta territory, throwing out jokes left and right to get approval. Also, when you make a joke, DON'T LAUGH AT YOUR OWN JOKE. Worst thing you could do. It comes off as really...not good. It just carries some seriously bad vibes.

In a power position, your words should reflect your station. Because you are "superior", you have leeway with what you say. Teasing works great from a position of power and if done right (this is difficult in more formalized settings, more on it later) can elevate you to the power position of that group. It works for guys and girls. Guy says something stupid (they'll say anything for womynly approval) give him a raised eyebrow or drop a little zinger ("Oh no, you're drunk again aren't you"). With a girl, standard teasing applies. When in power, teasing serves to cement your authority or raise you higher up the status scale (because you don't care so much about other people and will point out their stupidity). Remember that conversation comes first, THEN the occasional tease. Standard rule is have a normal conversation with a tease or two added for flavor. DO NOT OVERDO THIS PART. No one likes THAT GUY. Great in informal settings (the bar) or with equals/subordinates at work. Best leave it out with boss. With the boss, hold strong eye contact, open body language, speak calmly and slowly with good projection and pronunciation.

Don't argue. You can disagree, but DON'T argue. It makes you sound like a dick. Someone could bring something stupid as hell up (feminism, SJWism, muh feels, muh rape culture), and you send out a tease or just say "You're wrong". When they inevitably press you further, either set up a date for a moderated debate or just say "I'm not turning this into an argument. I'm here to do x,y,z. You're wrong, and that's all." Then go back to whatever you were doing before. This shows confidence because you don't need to qualify/defend your beliefs, you know they are right. An argument is an ego trying to restore balance.

Obviously there's more but this is a good starter. Remember baby steps. Don't come into school/work tomorrow being super commanding without the SMV to back it up. Start with a little of each and bit by bit you'll increase your status. Cheers.

henry_k · 2014-10-13T11:27:43+00:00

i would really appreciate more info on Power Talk too

Subtletorious · 2014-10-13T14:26:19+00:00

Google The Gervais Principle II

2014-10-13T22:04:22+00:00

It can be tough to do verbally. Writing is the easiest place to practice and hone your skills since you can draft and rewrite quite a bit.

I do this CONSTANTLY and personally consider myself rather mediocre at it, but I seem to get a bit of respect for my capabilities here amongst my peers. My boss and mentor is particularly skilled though and I have learned a lot. I'm fairly high up in a fortune 500 and this is a job requirement for me.

I basically have 2 modes of operation:

1) The shit has hit the fan, the battlefield is in chaos and we need a general. In these modes I use straight talk just like I always did when I was lower rank. It's efficent and commanding. Although, in these cases I am very wary of any other generals on the field and ready to shift back to powertalk at a moment's notice (sometimes with a veiled apology if the new player on the field is higher ranked... an apology only they will pick up on as it is veiled in powertalk).

2) At all other times I am using power talk.

Whenever I write an email or document I try to answer the following questions:

1) Who is my audience? What do I know about their knowledge, expertise, preconcieved notions, relative position on the pecking order, aversion to authority, willingness to take risks, emotional state and stability, aggressiveness, competitiveness, etc..

2) What do I want them to NOT know? I don't want to reveal any hidden cards unless it benefits me. For instance, my desire to influence the leader of the company in a particular way is knowledge known only to me. It may be beneficial, if I have an empowered ally with aligned goals to expose this to them, but otherwise I should keep this under my hat. The very fact that I am fluent in power talk is often something to keep under my hat. I will by default always attempt to appear clueless.

3) What do I want them to do? There is a reason I am sending this email. If there wasn't, I wouldn't be sending it. What is my desired outcome? Sometimes the answer to this question exposes to myself that I don't want them to DO anything, I just want an outlet for my emotions, in which case I need to stop writing. Sometimes just shifting their perception of me is the action goal I have in mind, for instance, if they are looking to delegate more power to someone and I need to inject myself into the candidate list.

4) What are they going to do/percieve/feel if I don't talk to them? If they are already on the path I want them, I can just shut up. Talking is risky, as I might miscalculate and sway them off of my path.

5) What knowledge do I need to impart to them and what do I need to make them feel in order for them to decide to do exactly what I want them to do? This is where the rubber meets the road. I need to give them EXACTLY the information that influences them to decide that my intended path for them is the logical one. I then need to make them FEEL like that is the "right" path. The knowledge imparted is often me turning over my hidden cards, which is a real cost of the encounter. I then need to emotionally back that up. I need to not swamp them with too much data; boring the target to death is most often counterproductive. Every word, every comma, even the sentence structure elicits an emotional response. I read and re-read every sentence, projecting myself into their mind with their preconcieved notions, biases, strengths and deficiencies and ask myself how they would be impacted with each statement. Most often I will write in short, declarative sentences with perfect grammar and spelling to avoid distraction from my goal. Sometimes, however, I will add a spice of slang to appear more aloof, or make something grammatically ambiguous to be able to change what I said either way after the fact. I will try each synonym and find the best. For instance, in a corporate setting "argument", "debate", "discussion", "triage", "risk analysis", "strategy meeting", "conversation", "consultation", etc.. may all have precisely the same meanings but each one elicits a different emotional response. Perhaps I feel that this person is highly analytical, risk averse, and egotistical and views me as an expert but with low decision making skills; in this case "risk assessment" might be a great word for our upcoming meeting. However, if they see me as an equal with mostly aligned goals, "conversation" might be a much better word. If I know they are conflict averse and I want them to avoid probing deeper into the logic of the situation, "debate" might be a great way to get them to make a snap unilateral decision based on their current knowledge of the situation instead of talking about it first (risking they change their mind). I particularly look for trigger words... anything that might be misinterpreted. Stupid things like using the word "manhole" when talking to a feminist can derail an entire negotiation. Imparting knowledge itself may need plausible deniability. For instance, if I am going to be telling my CEO that there is no male/female wage gap for software engineers because I think he's making a bad decision based on flawed data, I may not be able to come right out and say that. I need to wrap the data in a politically correct package with a pro-feminist bow on top with full deniability if I (or he) is called out.

6) I Then look at how they will view me after the communication. In each person's mind I am fostering an image of myself. I need to be congruent with the image I am trying to project. If I am trying to be a clueless mid-level manager and this communication outs me as a highly machiavelian player, then I need to rewrite it. If I need this person to believe I am a champion of the little guy, but this makes me appear powerful and corporate, then I can't send it as it.

7) Depending on the criticality of this message, I may have trusted allies review before sending, preferably those with good powertalking skills themselves. Sometimes I will re-write a 1 paragraph email 10-12 times before I am satisfied. I have the advantage that I have dozens of lawyers at my disposal to proofread in a privileged context.

8) I will then note any follow up I feel necessary and the probable timeline and mark it in my calendar. I may feel that this person will read this, be inspired to do what I want, but not feel compelled enough to follow through and I anticipate that within 2 days he will have forgotten all about it. I may make a note for 2 days from now to bring the matter back up, maybe in writing, maybe casually in the hallway.

This is indeed an arduous process, but you get good and efficient at it pretty quickly. The next step is to take it on the road and do it in person.

I had a great opportunity to speak hundreds of times to a hostile audience from a position of authority. This helped me unbelievably hone my verbal skills and befriend my audiences. Also, when I was 20, out of financial desperation I joined Amway for a few years and had a bit of success. That was a great learning experience. Imagine talking to hundreds of people convincing them that Amway is a great deal for them; and you think rejection approaching women is bad ;)

Since you probably don't have the same opportunities, I'd suggest toastmasters. Have a goal for your audience as in your writing, and follow a similar process, but do it verbally. The problem with toastmasters is that the audience isn't nearly hostile enough, but it's readily available with a low cost for failure. Promoting devisive red pill topics to a toastmaster's social group in a 5-7 minute speech might just get you the hostility you are looking for though; see if you can sway staunch feminists to your way of thinking, or elicit the exact argument from them that you want.

jcslzr · 2014-10-13T14:55:00+00:00

[Request] A Gervais Principle subreddit

That ebook is the Red Pill for the cubicle life, it deserves its own subreddit

Philhelm · 2014-10-13T16:40:10+00:00

From my interpretation, perhaps this could be an example of power talk:

A couple of months ago, I accompanied my wife to her ten-year high school reunion, along with her friend who also had attended the school, and her husband. Bored, I decided to make a game of it and mingled with the crowd along with the friend's husband, and pretended that we knew some of the people there. I found a nerdy looking, overweight woman, and started to pretend that I knew her. At first she seem confused, but then the friend's husband asked, "Don't you remember us?" She then claimed that she did in fact remember us (lol), so I said, "Yeah, I used to sit behind you in remedial algebra." What I had really communicated was, "You dumb cunt, you don't remember us because we've never met before." In fact, she got a bit angry and said that she didn't take remedial algebra.

Not relevant, but I also went to the shortest guy I could find, and told him he used to bully me. It was hilarious, since he started getting nervous before I laughed and told him I was just kidding.

curiousthis · 2014-10-13T15:05:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2014-10-13T16:26:43+00:00

Oh, yes please, I also would like to learn more about poetry. All the pill-keepers here only seem to talk about guns and patrons, but they miss to talk about the flowers and the honey too.

You want to learn to be a good poet, so? How can you teach yourself? Or better saying: how can a poet teach you to make your own poetry? Aren't poets too busy to compose poetry to use their time to teach others?

But the real question is: Aren't poets BORN poets?

---------------- STOP.

even when I read that I still cant sense PT in my everyday life

This is the main side-effect and one of the objectives of this so-called "powertalk".

The person who came up with that syntactic can be seen as a teacher in the next quoted school: "Business School: where people pay tons of money to learn to run a business from people who are only there because they don't know how to run a business."

-------------- STOP again.

The purpose: To attack AND To prevent to be attacked === To become stronger AND To prevent to be weaker === To gain more power AND To prevent to lose power.

The technique: decouple your syntactic from your semantic === To create a NON-bijective function between your stated syntactic and your implied semantic (but at the same time to make it APPEAR you have created a bijective function).

The created effect: not having a bijective function, the listener will create his own connection between your syntactic and the semantic. You state your syntactic in such a way to have full control over the semantic side of the listener.

alreadyredschool · 2014-10-13T11:58:51+00:00

There is much more than just the stuff in the sidebar, try the search function.

2014-10-13T12:02:53+00:00

Hang out with natural alphas who speak it by default. Only way to understand it.

LastRevision · 2014-10-13T15:40:33+00:00

My girlfriend's "awakened lesbian" mother has this really awful PowerTalk strategy where she starts off running and gunning, heavy eye contact for intimidation, being "brutally honest" while telling you what she wants you to do for her (as she would say, "like a man"), and when that fails she resorts to the typical female victim narrative just enough to soften her opponent and then it's back to running and gunning.

RedPillSafe · 2014-10-13T12:40:02+00:00

Powertalk is simply communicating on your animal level.

It's "Alpha Core" to "Alpha Core".

When you communicate with a dog it's 100% Powertalk because they don't understand abstract language.

A "Wolf Pack" works together using Powertalk. You never talk to your (best) wingman verbally.

In Poker you are attempting to prevent communication through Powertalk by accidentally giving away "tells", so that's the reverse skill of omission or misdirection.

Title	[Request] I would like more on Power Talk
Author	TRPer
Upvotes	99
Comments	66
Date	October 13, 2014 11:03 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2j3u3o/request_i_would_like_more_on_power_talk/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/request-i-would-like-more-on-power-talk.22861 https://theredarchive.com/post/22861

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