For most new people, the charge that red pill hates women is inseparable from discussion. The idea they have in their heads is that no matter what we say, the simple fact that we think about and discuss such shocking ideas, is more than enough proof that we must utterly hate women. Or at least that's the party line I get. This is my admittedly poor attempt to respond to it and explain how this seeming contradiction is not only possible, but may actually be the result of being here rather than finding such things out elsewhere, for many. I would have preferred someone else try to explain this, but sometimes you have to try to be the change.

The frog and the scorpion fable comes to mind.

A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the position that the natural behaviour of some creatures is inevitable, no matter how they are treated. It is also used to illustrate that individuals are apt to behave in accordance with their true character in spite of the education they might have received throughout their lives and in spite of knowing fully well the right course of action.

If we could expand this a little for argument's sake, don't you think the frog could appreciate the scorpion's nature and adjust its expectations of it without hating it? Perhaps the frog becomes bitter at realizing the scorpion's nature and being told of the scorpion's likely repayment of his generosity at first, but wouldn't that feeling not pass after due understanding? It may be justified but it is not productive to simply blame the scorpion. It is the frog himself who exposed his juicy, fleshy back to his stinger and expected him to control his instinct to strike. If he wanted to cooperate with the scorpion, maybe the frog should have carried him only when he's sure that the scorpion isn't able to strike. (Clearly the frog needs to re-read Sun-Tzu.)

Now, our dear scorpion and everyone else may feel offended at the discrimination. After all, not all scorpions are like that. But as unpleasant as it may be to consider, it is honest. And it is in the frog's genuinely needed best interest to view the situation as dispassionately and realistically as possible.

Now, I actually know(assuming from most BP discussions on anything RP) what your reply to this might be. You may have experienced a political correctness itch just now having women being compared to the scorpion. Even though both of us know it is not nor is meant to be a perfect metaphor, but merely explain in the needed amount of harshness to remind the "frogs" of reality, at some level you're thinking of using that to attack the point, using all manner of effortless moral high-standing without addressing the argument. Either that, or you'll go after the part where we should teach the scorpion not to strike(which ironically, traditional society did very well). Both of which would make you a pedant. And a troll.

Let me use Whisper's definition of troll to explain why:

Basically, someone who assumes you are sane, tries to understand your argument in the most compelling interpretation he can, and then tries to refute it, is a debater.

Someone who assumes you are insane, or tries to find weak interpretations of your arguments that will be easy to refute, or reifies metaphors, is a troll.

RP has lot of ground to cover and the barrier to entry of understanding probably encompasses plenty of books and articles and practical on the field experience. We don't have time nor interest in pleasing everyone. You are probably number 2.

NOT JUST WITH MY ASSUMED REACTION OF YOURS to the metaphor, but in just dismissing the RP as misogynistic or woman hating. You are taking an easy out. Refute the points made. Be a debater, or get out.

Simply saying it is woman hating or morally abhorrent is a thought-terminating cliché and completely useless to anyone who cares about information for its own sake, and not as just a way to grand-stand your moral superiority, like you. Just now.

Keep in mind:

The sensations of

  • "Being morally outraged"

  • "Having your bubble of self-righteous ignorance disrupted"

... are indistinguishable to the person experiencing them. Therefore, people can't really tell which one they are experiencing.

Religious fundamentalists feel "morally outraged" at homosexuals. Homosexuals feel "morally outraged" at religious fundamentalists.

Neither sensation is evidence of anything.

Still not convinced about the ambient venting though? Let me address the remaining part, in more detail.

/r/TheRedPill is three parts in function; a hub for the "manosphere", a sort of incubator for redpill attitudes and a venting space. Even when you post a hundred RP users posting misogyny(in your eyes) as proof to a given RPer, they will still claim we don't hate women... they genuinely believe RP is not about that. And arguably... they're right. They genuinely believe that that bitterness is a stage of accepting harsh truth for many who come here(redpill does contain harsh things that these people come to believe are true. Disillusionment is not without anger for any human being). When these men hear bitterness within discussion themselves, they're aware it may be juvenile, but they ignore it under the expectation the other guy will come to grow out if it. Every guy ranting about women is doing so under the implicit understanding that he is probably being whiny or a crybaby because reality isn't as perfect as he thought... and people here are not only willfully ignoring it, they are effectively providing an umbrella from ridicule to that venting here, so he won't do it elsewhere, like with a woman, where it counts.

A part of what TRP is, is basically this. The anger is accepted here, under the implicit understanding that it will pass, and you will vent it here, with us, and no where else. It is done from the viewpoint that these thoughts don't go away when you censor them, and no where else on the internet will such viewpoints be even allowed to exist. It is the difference between letting this toxicity and resentment fester inside rather than naturally dissipate as men build themselves and grow into better, more successful people.

Put in a blunt way, it is group therapy. You can laugh. But many of the people who latch onto RP, are men who are deeply disillusioned with the normal rhetoric, who have been hurt by it. They need this ounce of sympathy. That is what /r/TheRedPill believes. And most of us agree with this. The more successful of us who are inching closer to making it where we want don't laugh at the bitter incels among us. We can wordlessly sift through and hope they'll work on themselves enough to grow out of it, until they don't need that bitterness anymore.

EDIT: both quotes are from /u/whisper. I didn't see a point in paraphrasing.

EDIT 2: /u/JSP07 brings up an excellent point in the comments: "in reference to TRP the roles within the analogy are inter-changeable. The scorpion can be both the female betraying her beta male, or the alpha betraying his woman, both are simply following their behavioral instincts with the frog always aware of the reputation of, if not the actual nature of the scorpion."