TRP's views on performance enhancing drugs.

cageypenguin · 2015-08-23T16:09:03+00:00

TL:DR version:

I am in the same boat as you. I personally don't believe there is a problem with using opiates like you do, but I also believe that it could become a problem if you don't keep it in check.

There are steps you can take to make sure you keep the habit in check, as well as minimize the impact it has on you, such as a gradual taper, or stepping down to a weaker substance.

Long version (my story):

I have some experience in this regard. It is possible to, when sober, retain the drive and confidence that comes with lower doses of opiate use, but it's not easy, and it gets harder the longer you use them.

Several years ago, I was involved in a motorcycle accident where an impaired driver made a left turn into my path when I was travelling the speed limit. I slammed into the side of his van head on. I broke my legs, ankles, pelvis, entire rib cage, arms, wrists. Pretty much everything. I was killed and subsequently revived at the hospital. I'm also now missing a couple organs, and have quite a few pieces of metal holding me together.

With this kind of life altering injury, I pretty much have a carte blanche for prescription opiates. At first I was prescribed Oxys, but being no stranger to the power of opiates, I quit those (cold turkey) before I went back to work, and then took up Percs. Once again I quit those (almost cold turkey), and got Tramadol.

I noticed that unlike Percs and Oxys, Tramadol was stimulating, not sedative. I wanted to stay up all night and get shit done. I wanted to talk with everyone. I loved it, and I loved who I was when I was on them, not to mention they perfectly managed my chronic pain.

The problem was when I stopped, I reverted to a more introverted personality. Just as you have experienced.

My solution was and is to crush them all with a mortar and pestle into a fine powder, and weigh my daily doses into gelcaps, to do an extremely EXTREMLY gradual taper.

I started with a 90% dose for 2-3 weeks, then 80% dose for 3-4 weeks, then 70% for 4-5 weeks, and so on and so forth.

What I noticed with this is that I was actually able to retain most of the positive aspects of the opiate use because my body was easily adjusting to such a gradual taper, even after 2 years of daily dosage.

Now, another thing to note is that when opiates stimulate you and lift your mood, that's not actually the opiate itself, it's the serotonin boost that you get from the opiates. The opiates are actually acting something like a fast-action SSRI anti-depressant on you. This is where your heightened drive comes from.

This is why smaller doses of opiates, or weaker opiates in general have a more stimulating effect, because the SSRI effect isn't drowned out by the heavy sedative effect. This is why Tramadol works so well for me, because it's a weak opiate, but has a very strong effect on serotonin.

The 2nd time I quit Tramadol, I simply replaced it with an SSRI (paxil, I believe). I had very mild opiate withdrawls for a week, but after that I was fine. When the SSRI started working in about a month, I felt uplifted, not unlike the effects of Tramadol.

I quit SSRI and went back on Tramadol again simply because the SSRIs did nothing for my chronic pain (which I seemed to have forgot existed having taken opiates for so long), and because Paxil gave me some serious boner problems.

Like I said, if you really want to get off of opiates, you can do it, and retain at least most of the positive qualities, I would suggest:

Replacing a strong, low dose, highly addictive opiate (oxycodone, hydrocodone, fentanyl, etc), with a weaker, less addictive opiate (Tramadol is great here).
Taper off of the opiates and start an SSRI to replicate opiates effect on serotonin. (Don't take full dose of opiates and SSRIs at the same time, serotonin toxicity is real, you could have a seizure).
Taper off of the opiates extremely gradually, over the course of something like a year.

In the end, I opted to stay on the opiates, because I found the one that works for me, and while I sometimes have a pang of guilt associated with knowing that I am, by definition, addicted to a substance, I have accepted that fact, and gladly use it as a tool to achieve what I want. I have also proven to myself that I can come off them if I want to (justification is for bitches, I know, but a coping mechanism is a coping mechanism).

Takeaway points:

Do what works for you, but recognize the power of opiates.
Take efforts to keep the habit in check. Don't let it get away from you. Willpower. Never increase dosage. Step down instead.
Prove to yourself they are a tool, not a crutch. Internalize this.

side note: If anyone has questions about this kind of thing, or is struggling with substances, I'd be happy to speak about it privately and do whatever I can to help, just PM me.

edit: words.

chewis · 2015-08-23T14:33:42+00:00

I just got out of treatment for opioids. You wanna be careful because as time goes on you'll find yourself needing more and more.

I'm guessing it oxy's cause you said it was stimulating. That's what I was into before heroin

RPInjectionToTheVein · 2015-08-23T14:08:00+00:00

You may not care about how it looks to other people(fuck seeking validation), but always keep in mind that too much of something good will always be bad in the long term. The end does justify the means but one must be aware of the all of the consequences that come with a certain "means" before fully dedicating themselves to it. The fact that you require these opiates as a cruch to lean your high performance on proves that they are already taking their toll.

If I were in your shoes I would slowly weed myeself off and remember that my drive and success comes not from a silly little pill that I need to achieve my maximum potential but from my own ambitions, determination, and skill set as a masculine Alpha.

True mastery of the universe comes solely from yourself, not crutches.

redpillcynic · 2015-08-23T14:03:35+00:00

The end justifies the means

magus678 · 2015-08-23T15:51:58+00:00

I will paraphase Hitchens and say that, as long as you are getting more from the drug than the drug is getting from you, proceed.

tillybb · 2015-08-23T14:13:43+00:00

Even caffeine is a fucking drug.

Methlyphenidate (ritalin) is pretty damn awesome though. Extended release aswell. There's a reason its more expensive than almost any drug out there.

ItIsMyPrivilege · 2015-08-23T14:22:49+00:00

I would try to not use opiates. Addicting stuff man.see if there are other ways to get you there. I expected steroids which seems all good but opiates are notorious

epixs · 2015-08-23T15:58:32+00:00

Like others have said, your competition is and will be using them. In all fields, do whatever it takes to win. Winning is the only thing that matters.

Derbi50 · 2015-08-23T22:02:25+00:00

Honestly dude, its just not worth the risk.

Just like marriage. Sure there are examples of people who can make it work, but those are the exception to the rule.

90%+ of the opiate users end up with their lives fucked. Everyone from rock start heroine junkies to housewives gwatting down vicodin, it just isn't something that tends to end well.

Addictiction is like a hamster on steroids. It will just keep rationalizing, and pushing boundaries, and saying, "just this once. One more time. That one didn't count. I deserve it. I earned it." until you are a broke ass shell of your former self.

Seen it way too many times with dudes I grew up with.

Not worth the risk IMO.

death_glider · 2015-08-23T16:54:48+00:00

You are playing with something you cannot hope to control. The end is not some "mastery" of your "empire" that you describe. You stand to lose everything just like those countless drug addicts out there who thought they were brave/strong/enlightened enough to out-smart the long evolutionary path that formed the reward centers in our brains.

brokenshelf · 2015-08-23T18:07:42+00:00

To be honest, I've never met a function drug addict. Their definition of functioning and mine are usually much different. People look at Keith Richards and say, "Huh, well it worked out for him, I can manage it!".

Yeah well, Keith Richards is a genetic freak, a one in million type lottery winner. It's such a class, sad story where someone says "I can handle it, I'll manage and everything will be fine."

You'll lose.

trplurker · 2015-08-23T22:11:53+00:00

I would be extremely careful with those. Short term you can get amazing effects similar to extremely high testosterone and then some. Long term you can really fuck up your brain chemistry and lose everything. Unless your doing something similar to what a post said below, going through detox and taper cyclex, your going to eventually lose to the drug. Your going to start needing more and more of it to maintain the same effect until eventually you have to go so high that it overpowers the rest of your brain chemistry and starts short circuiting things.

That is when the flaming crash will happen, so be careful not to let it get to that point.

Douglerful · 2015-08-23T21:47:29+00:00

I eat an apple, a collection of chemicals in a shiny red wrapper because I wish to feel alert, full and focused. To me its all the same. Eat this to feel that. A man's body is his own to consume what he wants and feel how he wants. Just make sure its still your body and what your consuming hasn't taken it from you. Opiates will try and do that to you, do yourself a favour and Google Kratom.

Real8inchDong · 2015-08-23T16:36:29+00:00

If it helps you preform better and make more money fuck what everyone else thinks, I say do you. It doesn't become a problem unless you start depending on it for every facet of your day to day life.

I use anabolic steroids and fucking love being physically superior than 98% of all adult males. Also more test = more sexually motivated and confidence on 10.

LancerKagato · 2015-08-23T16:53:16+00:00

I take it you weren't on opiates long term. That shit will eat your brain eventually then they'll have to put you on Ritalin or Adderall to get back to baseline cause you're "perma-fried" I know they may make you more productive in the short term, but trust me long term use will mess you up. I was prescribed 30mg Percs daily (which isn't that much compared to abusers) for over a year, and am going through forced detox again (hopfully I'll stay off this time dispite medical issues). My brain does not work like it used to anymore, I got to watch it warp away dude, now I take 20mg Ritalin LA so I can focus on things that used to not be an issue.

33Laive · 2015-08-23T19:19:41+00:00

diet - keto

sleep - polyphasic

your new drug regimine - nootropics

Barely_Intrepid · 2015-08-23T16:44:51+00:00

You found what works for you. Keep going. The uncomfortable truth people don't like to admit, the vast majority of the population would be just fine if every drug was legal.

Most adults could easily handle doing coke, heroine, speed, even meth. People can, and do, live perfectly normal lives and use these drugs. Just like the vast majority with access to alcohol don't become alcoholics, the same is true with everything. Booze is up there in terms of inebriating effects, costs, and physical danger.

Shit goes wrong when the wrong people find the right drugs. If even 5% of the population can't handle themselves, that's 15 million+ fuck-ups ruining a lot of other's lives. Hence prohibition.

The negative moralism regarding your productive use of opiods applies to the 5%. So long as you maintain the presence of mind to recognize use versus addiction.

Maintain your goals, don't ever sell it to others, and keep being successful.

iLLprincipLeS · 2015-08-23T17:45:55+00:00

you got me interested. what exactly did you use, how much?

Beautiful_Idealism · 2015-08-23T22:25:25+00:00

I take tons of peds. Not all peds are for everyone but it's a personal decision. Sometimes they are necessary to achieve your goals.

I have no experience with opiates, mostly athletic related ones.

slooberki · 2015-08-24T03:39:58+00:00

The biggest problem I would point out is that the positive effects of such substances tend to fade over time, as the dependence, and eventually full-blown addiction (you DON'T want to get to this point trust me it's worse than just simply having withdrawal symptoms). The risks are far too high to justify the gain.

Source: I am a recovering (6.5 months clean) amphetamine addict.

malditoduende · 2015-08-24T11:11:53+00:00

I see them as tools. Some people will hate on steroids for instance, but they are nothing but a tool. If you don't put it the hard work not only will you not see results but you will get side effects. I suffered a bad injury that kept me out of the gym for over a year. When I came back I did a Test E and Anavar cycle. Was strong and ripped in 15 weeks. Why is this wrong? It isn't. Beats me why anyone would rather have results in years instead of months. The discipline is actually more when you "cheat" (who are you cheating here precisely? If you are not an athlete you ain't cheating) and it's not like once your cycle is over so is the hard work. The hard work will keep on going for as long as you wish to maintain your physique.

stonepimpletilists · 2015-08-24T13:56:49+00:00

Food for thought.

The majority of steroid users are 30+ year old men, in a non-athletic career, who do it purely for physical attractiveness reasons.

I'd stay off the smack, but I can't find a reason to enjoy it, other than mindless hedonism, but you do you

oldredder · 2015-08-25T04:16:56+00:00

generally it's off-topic. More specifically if you can credibly say you're harming yourself with drugs TRP would say "well, don't". If you can credibly prove actual benefit to actual mental and physical performance, go for it.

I found when I stopped using, after the initial acute withdrawal symptoms (minor, was only taking 20mg daily)

That's actually pretty big. When I was small-time use I was 25mg per MONTH. When it got out of hand was 25mg/week. Then doses upped and over the period of a decade I gradually got to 400 mg/day.

Dealing with vendors or employees in a no-bullshit capacity became reflex. I was, and continue to be, a machine. Cold, calculated and with little patience for people's excuses or personal matters that slow me down

Agreed but for me there was no aggression. No need for it. Instead I had aggression to start with and opiates calmed me down. Morphine was my fav but heroin, oxycontin, dilaudid (hydromorphone) all got their turn. Percoset not so much: I couldn't inject it so I was not very interested.

Title	TRP's views on performance enhancing drugs.
Author	LitHit
Upvotes	0
Comments	59
Date	August 23, 2015 1:54 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3i2v94/trps_views_on_performance_enhancing_drugs/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/trps-views-on-performance-enhancing-drugs.35790 https://theredarchive.com/post/35790

Comments

TL:DR version:

Long version (my story):

Takeaway points: