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"While everyone condemns sexual assault, there seems to be an assumption among female students that they shouldn’t have to protect themselves by avoiding drunkenness and other risky behaviors, he said."

rozarin

August 21, 2014
86 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill
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Title "While everyone condemns sexual assault, there seems to be an assumption among female students that they shouldn’t have to protect themselves by avoiding drunkenness and other risky behaviors, he said."
Author

rozarin

Upvotes 86
Comments 58
Date August 21, 2014 4:13 PM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2e6von/while_everyone_condemns_sexual_assault_there/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/while-everyone-condemns-sexual-assault-there-seems.228570
https://theredarchive.com/post/228570
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Comments

[–]FortunateBum58 points59 points60 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Typical female response.

Woman: Here is the problem: Rape.

Man: Here's how you solve that problem: ...

Woman: BLAMING THE VICTIM!

Man: Don't you want to solve the problem?

Woman: I want society to solve the problem for me. I have a VAGINA!

Man: Uh... ok.

[–]lemonparty 37 points37 points37 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"Don't play with fire, you could get burned."

BLAMING THE VICTIM!

[–]2comment6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't eat so much, you could get Diabetes/Heart Attack/etc?

Victim blaming!

Fat acceptance hasn't moved that far, but who knows in a decade? It's the very same thought process.

The reason it's always good advice is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Men know where it's at, they have to protect themselves because no one else is going to do it for them. Women? Ha! Everyone has to watch out for her (but don't dare tell her nothin'!)

[–]MessedupMakeup2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't look stabbable, you might get stabbed! Is a more accurate comparison.

[–]Fzed60017 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Whats sad is that she innately knows the answer, but society screwed up her thinking process. I mean seriously go ask little girls the very same questions (in a pg manner of course) and they will give you a logical answer at 5 years old.

[–]MessedupMakeup0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem is the criminals. Yes there are ways to lower risk, but that doesn't change the fact that the criminals are the problem which we should be trying to fix, not how the victims act.

[–]Concord_Fight[🍰] 23 points24 points25 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

They wear the slutty clothing and get drunk so they can attract the attention of alpha males. When they start getting the attention of the beta males, that's when they start worrying about sexual assault and rape culture. The betas are sexually interested in them, and that makes them uncomfortable. Then maybe they get so drunk that they actually hook up with a beta. The sober up, are ashamed, and blame him for their actions.

Men don't have these "rape culture" issues because they'd fuck the girl sober or drunk. Female privilege is not being demonized for your sexuality just because you're not in the top 20% of men.

[–]1BadgerBurger9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You hit the nail on the head right here. Nothing repulsed a woman more than the knowledge that she almost had (or had) sex with a beta.

If I fuck a fat chick, I shrug it off as a crazy night. If a woman fucks a beta, obviously a crime against humanity was committed.

[–]MessedupMakeup0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What about lesbians who wear slutty clothing? Not everyone wears clothes to attract men and people can be raped by any man, 20% attractiveness or not. If you were a top 20% man you would realise not all single women want to sleep with you.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points45 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I've said the same thing before. Its a crime for someone to break into your house. But don't expect it not to happen if you leave your doors and windows unlocked. There are nasty people out there. If you wanna minimize your risk of being victimized by them then take the necessary precautions. Don't keep bitching about the fact that they exist and do the things they do. But how dare you suggest that women should take responsibility for themselves...mysoginists!

[–]lemonparty21 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I like the analogy, because this isn't about sex, or even "feeling safe in a public space" at its core. It's about the ultimate goal of zero accountability. It's about being so entitled that you think you can play with fire with zero risk of being burned.

[–]trpalternate16 points17 points18 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This reminds me of Slutwalk in my city a few years ago. A columnist for the local paper wrote an article about how Slutwalk was great and that it was an opportunity to teach girls about ways of reducing their risk of being assaulted. Holy fucking shitstorm.

The Slutwalk organizers and Feminists flipped their shit. She was accused of victim blaming, being a rape supporter and all sorts of shit. Because she suggested that Slutwalk teach women ways to reduce their chances of being a victim.

[–]phil_mcrevis8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's really fucking absurd how obvious this is when you think about it.

If I run into a dark alley in a sketchy neighborhood on the way to my car after the bar closes, wearing expensive clothes and an expensive watch on my wrist, and get mugged, what the fuck do you think everyone would tell me? Don't go into dark alleys in sketchy neighborhoods while showing off jewelry that would make a criminal want to steal it, dumbass!

Imagine the reaction if I said "stop victim blaming me, it's not my fault that criminals are shady assholes. I didn't invite this, I should be allowed to do whatever I want!

[–]tsudonimh1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

One of the idiots tried to point out the no one blames someone for being burgled if they didn't have enough security - completely missing the point that those with security systems are far less likely to be burgled in the first place.

[–]MessedupMakeup0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, they are less likely to get burgled, but that in no way means they are to blame for getting burgled because of their lack of security system or they should be attacked for it. The criminals are the problem we should all be working to fix.

[–]TheSKSpecial14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

While this is common sense to anyone with a functioning brain and any capability for rational thought, it violates the "men must never suggest women take some responsibility for their actions" tenet of feminism.

Thus, this man is an evil misogynist victim-blaming shitlord who hates women.

[–]IAmTheIlluminatiAMA23 points24 points25 points 11 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Let's go to nature. I guess water buffalo should just be free to drink wherever they want. We will just tell the alligators to stop eating them. Nevermind they're not always going to run into an alligator. Most of the time they go to drink they will be fine. This makes it OK for a water buffalo to take no steps to look out for alligators.

[–]Endorsed ContributorSarcasticus51 points52 points53 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Teach alligators not to alligate!

[–]IAmTheIlluminatiAMA4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, we haven't even touched on the water buffalos guilty of false alligating. Somehow you can accuse a gazelle of being an alligator, ruin his life, get caught lying about it, and you are still a victim.

Side note, this analogy of women being water buffalos works best with American women. If these were Swedish chicks they would then be the gazelles.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points4 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]IAmTheIlluminatiAMA0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In Sweden? Yeah, but they're liberated (aka slutty) and hot as fuck. You take the good with the bad.

[–]Maneyefold2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That wasn't even an "apples to oranges" comparison, that was an "apples to string theory" comparison.

[–]MessedupMakeup-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you meaning to imply it's natural for men to rape? Because I certainly hope you think better of the male species than that.

[–]Maneyefold10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

In bonobos, females will occasionally get raped. When that happens, the females will gang up on that male and beat him to death. The other males are cool with this, because it means more sex for them.

Food for thought.

[–]IAmTheIlluminatiAMA6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If I were a bonobo I would privately encourage the males to rape other female bonobos and get all that sweet ape ass to myself

[–]RK-no4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You have read the 48 laws of power.

[–]MrKnot10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The usual feminist response to this is saying "that means that all men are rapists with no control over their urges". No, what this says is that rivers can be dangerous places; the majority of river animals are not predators, but some of them are alligators that will try to eat you if you expose yourself. Learning what type of spots alligators hang around and what tactics they use is as useful to a water buffalo as learning how to be party safely is to a woman.

[–]RobbyTheLifeguard3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This among many other things have made realize that the true point of feminism is allow women to do whatever they want without ever having any consequences

[–]Fzed6004 points5 points6 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The Water Buffalo is native to Asia (south of China) while the Alligator is native to China and America. While the African Buffalo and Crocodile are native to Africa. I understand the analogy, I just want to correct that part.

[–]IAmTheIlluminatiAMA0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You know what is funny? I knew I had fucked something up as soon as I posted but just went with it. I never get crocs and gators right but I did learn from you that water buffalos are not in Africa.

[–]Summertime_Dimes3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I agree with the sentiment, but I am not crazy about the analogy you have drawn.

Here is why: the analogy does nothing to disregard the general feminist (incorrect) consensus about rape culture. All alligators would probably enjoy eating a buffalo. All buffalo have every reason to be suspicious of all alligators. Eating is an undeniable biological compulsion. Rape is not, it is a crime.

I do not believe that all women have every reason to be suspicious of all men. I believe that people who suggest that all men are preprogrammed to rape (much in the same way that alligators are preprogrammed to eat buffalo) are wrong.

You are totally correct in what you are trying to suggest, but I think the analogy could be easily turned against you by someone wishing to subvert the meaning which you intended to convey. u/nihilistanarchist reached the same conclusion as both you and I through a different analogy likening one crime (burglary) to another (rape) and I think the analogy holds more water. Just looking out bro, all respect.

[–]IAmTheIlluminatiAMA5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

No, I agree. I just browse here in dull moments at work and could have done better. I would change it to, instead of alligators, animals in general so men are all other animals and some men are alligators. I could have went more in depth but wanted to keep it simple. Let's face, though: The people who would argue against this are just hamstering anyway and wouldn't agree with it no matter how logical

[–]Summertime_Dimes3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude that is an excellent point. Constructing hypotheticals to avoid idiotic arguments does not fix the problem of people making idiotic arguments. That is some much needed perspective on my end, bro.

[–]MessedupMakeup0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What does hamstering actually mean? Is it just a word to invalidate opinions you disagree with or just towards women you disagree with?

[–]IAmTheIlluminatiAMA0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Rationalize away an illogical position. Like when people cheat on a partner, then get caught and blame the partner for whatever reason in order to absolve themselves of blame.

[–]FusionPhysics4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Flip the genders in the typical scenario of "rape". Let's say I, a straight male, go to a gay bar. I get drunk, grind my ass on all kinds of gay dudes all night. At the end of the night, one guy asks me to go home with him. I say yes. He fucks me, and I claim rape. Who in the world would say that this is his fault? No! Nobody would consider this legitimate rape.

[–]TattedGuyser3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

“Among the people I hang out with, there’s more hesitancy to hook up with someone when there’s alcohol involved,” Sandoval, 21, said. “Something that you might have thought would be okay when you were drunk might not be okay later on. ”

This is just sad... They are teaching men that it's ok for a woman to sleep with you and then claim rape after the fact because they might regret it. This is just disgusting.

More campuses are adopting bystander education programs that seek to recruit men in stopping sexual assault, said Jackson Katz, co-founder of MVP Strategies, which offers violence prevention programs for schools and the U.S. military.

And here they have a campus sponsored white knight program. Just absolute bullshit. There is so little agency with these women that the campus is training men to be white knights to care for them. College has basically become adult babysitting.

[–]forbinsdecline8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"This is the only crime where people blame the victim,” said Annie E. Clark, co-founder of End Rape on Campus

What?!? That statement is so incredibly false I don't even know if she can believe it herself.

[–]MessedupMakeup0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's probably one of the only crimes where you can inflict significant psychological damage by blaming the victim, though.

[–]forbinsdecline0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point, but I still don't think that's a reason to not speak honestly about the problem. Also, it's not a zero sum situation. Telling women they should be careful doesn't take any guilt away from the rapists.

[–]chairmobile 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I go to a UC. I've essentially written off college sex. Not worth losing my degree over.

[–]TheLargeCactus2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The title is exactly right. We punish drunk driver's because they should know not to act fucking stupid and try to drive after drinking but then our society does a 180 when it comes to sexual assault. Suddenly a drunk person is not responsible if they consent to sex while drunk, it becomes an act of "taking advantage of someone." If your dumb ass doesn't want to regret what you did drunkenly on the night before then you shouldn't have gone and gotten drunk in the first place.

[–]TheLargeCactus1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And that isn't to say that its rape is ok if the person is drunk, but if they drunkenly consent and then change their mind in the morning it shouldnt be rape or sexual assault. They got drunk knowingly and should have to live with the consequences of what they said or did while drunk. We don't forgive drunk drivers, so why would we forgive drunk sluts?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If woman are naturally equal to men then why do they need a bunch of laws and artificial rules and privileges to make them so?

[–]RollnOnLife5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

What more important. Finishing education, or going through trials to see if you BB material?

Remember that saying "just because you can, doesn't mean you should"

Think of this when you see a wasted female trying to get in your pants. Especially at a college where almost her whole life is her current clique.

[–]dev_u_random 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Think of this when you see a wasted female trying to get in your pants. Especially at a college where almost her whole life is her current clique.

Let's take that analogy. The claim is that a woman who is drunk cannot consent. Ok. So even if she says yes, it's still rape.

So by that logic, someone who gets behind a wheel of a car is not guilty of a DUI because they could not consent in driving. Therefore it's everybody around them's fault, and NOT the drunken one.

Now, explain that to MADD.

[–]Tom_The_Human0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

If being drunk really did mean that you can't consent, taxi drivers would be chargeable for abduction and takeaway owners would be armed robbers. Oh wait, that's fucking stupid. I really think there needs to be a test to weed out the retards (aka 60+% of the population) when it comes to political and lawmaking matters.

[–]dev_u_random1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's exactly my point. People can and do consent when under influence of drugs and alcohol. It's only the NAGS that demand that 'weemen are special!'

And an answer to the largely idiotic population: we need a good war like the Rev or Civ war to thin our ranks. Part of the problem is we have too many people.

[–]Burner17010 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Why are people in the thread assuming that the women who claim to have been raped while drunk had actually consented to sex at the time but changed their minds in the morning?

[–]dev_u_random 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Aside physical proof that rape occurred, rape is a "he said / she said" kind of ordeal.

It also plays within the virginal fiction of women. Women are supposed to play hard to get, with heavy flirtations and sexual cues. And then they go to places with heavy alcohol and known sex hot-spots. They are giving all the cues that they are ready and willing. And not to mention, no doesn't always mean no: it means force your way ala 50 shades of Grey.

The criticism here is that women, no ~ girls really, are going to places that are known for sexual flings. Then they show all the signs. Then you mix alcohol in with everyone. OF COURSE you're going to have some miscommunications. They're quasi-rape. Intent was given, but consent was unsure. And due to the guys 'taking the initiative', you end up with not-so-innocent girls screaming rape when they're no longer high and/or drunk. Or, they stayed out past their curfew, or the guy was not so hot. Rape is easier to claim than social consequences.

The other problem is this he said/she said is that the women are believed as true the great majority of the time, EVEN if there's no legal case. Now, cue the research from universities punishing in kangaroo courts the claim of rape.

And as to my first caveat, there are ways to detect rape. Vaginal and anal tearing is one sign. Torn and tattered clothes are another, as are bruises to the throat, wrists, and inside the thighs. How do I know? I've seen it. I've been called in afterward by female friends for helping them with regards to rape. And there's no question between the two. One was spousal assault/rape for subjugation and another lady I helped had a belt fear triggered. She froze completely due to prior phobias. The guy didn't know she wasn't consenting.

[–]Burner17010 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

This is all true to some extent, but it's also true that many young women go out with their friends to have fun and maybe meet someone. I think the number who go out looking to have sex with a random stranger is actually pretty low. I also think that many are rubbish at judging how drunk they are getting, and that there are predatory men who deliberately look for drunk girls to isolate and then rape when the girls are too drunk and scared to offer much resistance(although they don't see it as rape for all the TRP rationalising reasons you mentioned). I've seen this too.

Yes, women shouldn't walk alone drunk at night, that's just stupid, but there's nothing wrong with building a culture that also tells men that if a girl is very drunk and you're not, then don't have sex with her. I have a female friend who has a room mate. He isn't interested in her and is careful to maintain boundaries. When he gets drunk he is completely different and very affectionate with her. She acted on his drunken advances and gave him a blow job. Next day he was really upset because that wasn't something he wanted to happen. Sexual activity with very drunk people? Just say no. Go lift and work on yourself so you can attract girls who aren't heavily intoxicated for sex.

[–]1raceAround1260 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I like girls dressing provocatively.

It says, "I'm likely up for it."

After some practice, you can gauge which ones are actually up for it and those that are just cock teasers. The latter I laugh at and walk away. A few came back later on offering themselves on a plate.

One word, selfie! Women love that shit and there is no better evidence that says a girl was there willingly than a selfie. Wipes rape criers right out of the room. Not infallable under a real world test I'm sure, but better than you vs her tears and a police report.

Fact is, men are almost afraid of sex these days. I never considered I would ever need more than a condom for safe sex. When you now need to add espionage into the equation, its like a dice with death.

I take particular offence to these rape criers. I honestly feel if they cry rape and are later found out, they should be imprisoned. My cousin was actually raped. Not got drunk and regretted it rape, as in, she was bundled into her car after work one night and was violently beaten the shit out of. It angers me when these fucking cunts have the audacity to peer through their fuck-ugly large rimmed glasses and claim this shit. It makes my blood absolutely boil they are so flippant with it when ten years after the event my cousin is still bearing thr mental scars from what she had.

In fact... Cry rape and its not true? You should actually be raped as punishment! I feel that strongly about it.

[–]Petrarch16030 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When you're walking thru a dangerous neighborhood at night and need to stop by 7-11, you don't by your gatorade with a hundred dollar bill.

[–]Schickie-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Gentlemen,

As a long time practitioner and advocate of TRP.

Grow the fuck up.

Take responsibility for the fact that if you fuck a drunk girl she could very well recant. It's just a fact. You have no power in that situation so why stick your dick into trouble. Life's unfair, grow a pair you fucking children.

Every person here who justifies an illegal act because it's easy or convenient to commit should grip tightly your ears and pull your head out of your ass because it's quite possibly the dumbest thing you could ever say and makes you sound like a jilted neanderthal.

You complain about women not using common sense. Here's a tip from someone who got laid plenty in college and since without incident. It's very, very simple.

DONT FUCK DRUNK GIRLS YOU AREN'T DATING.

DON'T FUCK WOMEN YOU DON'T KNOW OR CAN'T TRUST.

DON'T BLAME THE CHICK BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CONTROL YOUR DICK.

Your lack of frame is an embarrassment.

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Schickie-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I need to NOT to be accused of rape more than I need to get laid. God forbid you should take the time to get to know someone before you stick your penis in them.

[–]Wheatspin -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You know what, sometimes it literally is the victim's fault. I'm sick of the "you're blaming the victim! how insensitive, it's not their fault, etc etc" bullshit. If I roll up in blood territory alone dressed like a crip, it's my fucking fault if I get shot to death. They pulled the trigger, yeah, but that's common fucking sense that you don't do that and not expect consequence.

UNLESS YOU'RE A WOMAN. If you're a woman and you're going to get shitfaced at a frat house, the place that's responsible for the negative perceptions of how college women are treated, you should understand that you are putting yourself at risk. And they do. Every single one of them does. But they don't care because they want to have their cake and eat it to. All reward with no risk.

For example: I know someone who went to a school that literally had a "rape frat" as in everyone who went there called it that. That was it's nickname, "the rape frat." If I had to estimate, ~5 rape claims came out of that place yearly. And still, despite the obvious risk, women would go every weekend for their booze and free social status boosts.

It absolutely fucking blows my mind that people can be so devoid of the concept of consequence like that. Women's brains work so differently from ours it's almost like they're an entirely different species.

[–]MessedupMakeup0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Did they put themselves at risk? Yes. Was it their fault or did they deserve to get raped? Hell no.

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