Yet another one asks the big question while showing off her assets that only Chad will get to enjoy.

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While this is technically true, it's not as crazy as it seems. If you are looking at a regular car, for $30k, you are out $3k just for sales tax and registration in most states. You drive it for a year, and you try to get a wholesale buy bid from CarMax or a car dealership to just buy it from you cash. You'd probably get $20k for it, because they want to sell it for $4k profit plus $1k for new tires and brakes and cleanup, and if new ones are going for $30k, $25k is about right for a 1 year old car.

So, you've spent $3k on taxes, $1k on full coverage insurance, and lost $10k on the actual car.

Could you rent a car that car for $29 a day, insurance included via your credit card? (You'd have to switch rentals every 30 days for the car insurance to keep being valid through your credit card.) Yes I think you can.

This works out because the first year in car ownership is the most expensive year of car ownership, depreciation and taxes wise.

Your plan is very true if you consider a car 5+ years old, and especially true at 10+ years old. When I cared more I used to buy 10 year old cars, drive them for a few months, and sell for a small profit for fun.

[–]uberduger 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™[M] [score hidden] 6 years ago* stickied comment (35 children) | Copy Link

Here's an example of the female preference to maintain plausible deniability.

What she says - I want a good, decent man. A man who's stable, kind, caring, gentle, sensitive etc. A true upstanding gentleman who will be responsible for me and my bastard crotch fruit.

What she does - present her boobs in a slutty outfit. This sends a sexual signal that conveys her desire for wild, passionate, uninhibited, primal monkey sex.

Can't have it both ways - what makes the first guy so attractive as a long term partner is the very thing that makes his utterly boring sexually. Conversely, what makes the second guy so sexually exciting, is the very thing that makes him such a terrible long term partner.

A wise woman will remain a virgin until she finds a good man whose primary traits are of the stable, kind, gentle variety (beta) but who's secondary traits are good looks, a little excitement (within reason) and other alpha like qualities. A wise woman will nurture her sexual interest each and every single day starting from day one when her NRE is in full swing. She will thus have the correct balance of the warm home and will have a much better chance of having a long lasting marriage.

A tingle led woman wants to have it both ways. Her sexual desire leads her to send out sexual vibes but her desire for stability leads her to write messages that seek out stable men. If you point out the contradiction, she'll just gaslight you. Example: if you point out how her attire doesn't match the type of man she's looking for, she'll retort with: I don't dress for men, I dress this way because it makes me feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel good.

Yea. Right.

[–]iamrivensky 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]DemianskyJr. Hamster Analyst 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

Good analysis. You can't have it all, and if you try to have it all, good chance you'll end up with nothing. I do have a quibble though, I think it's totally impractical to expect a woman to be a virgin upon getting married (just as I expect the same for men). If it happens to all fall into place for the first time around for people like my wife and I, that's great, but it's virtually impossible to know whether you are sexually compatible until you've had sex (both labido and preference) and impossible to know definitively whether you are compatible in other ways. Like, if one person is a corpse in bed, you aren't going to know until they've gone to bed, and I wouldn't wish an utterly dead sex life on either a husband or a wife.

For instance, my sister always had good judgement with men, but learned with her first boyfriend that they simply wanted two different lifestyles (she was athletic and outdoorsy, he liked to stay at home, she wanted kids, he didn't, etc). The relationship was pleasant and there was emotional comparability, but the match didn't make sense, and it took a few years to figure it out (could they really have expected 0 sex in 3 years??)

I think the best you can expect is good judgement, even if the results aren't exactly as you'd want them to be on the first try.

[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

I do have a quibble though, I think it's totally impractical to expect a woman to be a virgin upon getting married (just as I expect the same for men). If it happens to all fall into place for the first time around for people like my wife and I, that's great, but it's virtually impossible to know whether you are sexually compatible until you've had sex (both labido and preference) and impossible to know definitively whether you are compatible in other ways. Like, if one person is a corpse in bed, you aren't going to know until they've gone to bed, and I wouldn't wish an utterly dead sex life on either a husband or a wife.

Tell me why a man should get married altogether?
If he does get married, what's the purpose of marriage?
Now that you're clear on the purpose of marriage, what criteria are necessary to achieve this goal?
Now that you know what's necessary for marriage, what might ruin said marriage?
Now that you know what's the purpose of marriage and what might ruin it, you'll understand why it's not worth paying full price for second hand goods. You'll also understand that it's better to not marry at all, rather than marry damaged goods. If everyone is damaged, see question number one.

[–]DemianskyJr. Hamster Analyst -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (25 children) | Copy Link

So to backtrack, I led with the quibble but thought your original analysis was well thought, well written and spot on. I've seen the other things you write in this sub and it's very sharp. That being said:

Because some men want a settled life with a person that has similar wants/needs in life. It's probably something that only highly compatible people should do, because the potential costs can quickly outweigh the various legal benefits.
Some of the literal legal benefits here: https://www.moneyunder30.com/financial-benefits-of-marriage IMO, they are helpful, but not as important as they are cracked up to be (but still something). You could make some round about arguments about "social" benefits regarding perceptions (we wanna show everyone we're married and society values that!), but I don't really consider those legit reasons.
I think the primary criteria for achieving this goal is mutual understanding of your objectives together and a significant degree of similarity in personality and interests, otherwise the very legal benefits afforded up above end up creating a lot more pain in disentangling 2 lives.
Not wanting the same things, and so engaging in petty power struggles to steer the ship of marriage in the direction that one party wants and not the other. Its not too dissimilar from bitter factionalism in government. This can vary from different financial goals, different emotional expectations, different sexual expectations, etc.
Well, I don't see how you've come to that conclusion for step five based on what I've written up above. I can see how all of those questions up above might have been answered differently based on the traditional notion that every man and every woman should get married, but in my opinion the nature of marriage needs a major overhaul. In this day and age, I think most people probably shouldn't get married, but if you have two rational actors who want the same thing in life, I think it makes sense (and can work better than if they were not married). I don't see why you necessarily consider someone not a virgin as "irreparably damaged goods." I mean, sure, if they are chronically having meaningless sex and crying themselves to sleep every night like the subject women in these threads because they can't seem to make an authentic human connection, then sure, damaged goods. But I think its a stretch to presume that everyone who has had sex with someone they didn't marry was "damaged goods."
My own aside, I know people in this subreddit are going to think its weird that I'm not all negativity all the time, but I'm someone who just wants to have a balanced view (I'm subbed to /niceguys too, which I'll be honest, has caused me to wear down the enamel of my molars, but there are some douche bag men in the world too that would be a perfect match for some of the dating profiles on this sub). I have a lot of sympathy for the crap that no doubt many of the guys in this subreddit have to deal with in the dating scene now a days (Have enough money? Well you're too short. Tall? Well not charming enough. Have enough money? Well not educated enough.) I thought your critique in your original post about how so many women walk face first into their own misery was pretty spot on, couldn't have said it better myself. I'm very cynical about how society pushes romance and marriage as a cure all to a person's lack of purpose and meaning in life, and how following those message can make someone's life worse. But to say that that is how it is all the time I don't think is accurate either. My own personal experience with romance and marriage has been unfairly easy, and its unambiguously made my life better and more fulfilling in every way. But my experience observing the world tells me that what I have is rare, and I generally advise people not to get married. The act of marriage will only actually make your relationship better in a very, very narrow set of circumstances. That doesn't mean you can prove that its always bad from a logical proof.

[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

Wow.... That's some long shit... I'll give you the answers.

Today, there's absolutely no reason to get married because the definition of marriage in society today is a terribly unfair deal for men. Doesn't matter if she swears up and down that she won't pull the trigger given to her by law and culture. What matters is that this loaded gun is handed to her and she can use it at any time.
In a sane society, the purpose of marriage is first and foremost to establish a family in which the maximum needs of everyone involved are met. This means that the man is responsible for protection and provision for the wife and children and in exchange for his responsibility, he's given authority over them. This means the woman owes certain things to her man such as housekeeping, child rearing and sex. This means that marriage cannot be dissolved willy nilly and that there's a price to pay if you're the cause of divorce. There's much more to fully describe what a balanced marriage system would look like but such a marriage does not exist today. Therefore, it's not worth getting married today.
In order to establish a healthy family, you need her sexual purity (among other things). This means that she must be a virgin. If she isn't a virgin, she's a bad lifelong investment. If she isn't a virgin, she's good for a low value man who has no options.
There are many elements to this, but her not being a virgin is a big one. If she has tasted other dicks, she doesn't bond with you in an absolute manner the way a virgin wife does. This concept is foreign to most people today because most people sleep around and ruin this form of bonding. Look at almost all of history and you'll see a premium placed upon virgin brides.
Marriage itself is a terrible deal for men. A non virgin is a terrible marriage investment. Add these two together and marrying a non virgin in today's marriage market is like buying a beat up tenth hand car from the mafia. The car will soon stop functioning for its intended purpose and you'll forever have to keep paying runaway interest to thugs who have a gun to your head. Congratulations on your modern marriage. You win..... 🤦‍♂️

Tag u/where_muh_good_mens u/moorekom

[–]I-am-the-lulAll Ass No Stick 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]moorekomUrban Hoe Guerrilla 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I'll add on to this reply.

u/Demiansky

Because some men want a settled life with a person that has similar wants/needs in life. It's probably something that only highly compatible people should do, because the potential costs can quickly outweigh the various legal benefits.

Aka "Don't you want the companionship?" There is rarely one. The nature of equality in a relationship is the girl depending on the guy 80% of the time and the guy depending on the girl about 20% of the time.

Sure, this might shift sometimes based on the activity involved. For example, in child rearing a mother does the caring while the father is in charge of the provision. If the mother also works and a nanny takes care of the kid, then that's a mess. But, for majority of the cases, this is how it is. Men don't need much from women. We want sex, we want them to be pleasant and beautiful, we want them to take care of our children and we want peace. That's it. Anything more than that is appreciated but not required.

There is an effort to strip any responsibility from a woman and to pile on to the responsibilities of men while at the same time stripping any authority that goes with said responsibilities. For all the "strength" women say they possess and for all the equality they say they desire, always remember that there are no feminists in a forest fire. When there is an intruder in your house at midnight, it won't be her that goes to confront him.

Most men in the manosphere might remember this photo. It was very famous because this is emblematic of what we usually discuss about.

Thing is, we have no problem taking on that responsibility. But, we won't take on that responsibility without the authority that goes with it. Women are either men's equals or not. They cannot have it both ways. And "equality" to women works mainly to facilitate this cherry picking model.

If they think they're truly equal, then they will be treated exactly like men treat each other. There won't be any alimony, no support, no marriage, no commitment. We'll meet when we desire to. We'll meet until the company is pleasant. Any issues they have will be theirs to solve. We might help them out of the goodness of our heart, if we desire to and if we think they're worth the bother. If we don't, then we won't. That's what adults do. Anyone who don't or can't behave like adults will get treated like a kid or will be left on their own. That's what you are seeing increasingly these days. Women can choose how they want to behave. Men will adjust accordingly. And once we do, we don't take back. We don't adjust back. We don't change our minds every so often. When we make a decision, we will follow through with it.

Apart from the fact that marriage is a terrible deal for men, women are increasingly being taught to be lazy bums who "deserve" to be treated like royalty in a relationship and also to judge the performance of men during these occasions. The burden of marriage is mainly on the men. Men can lose everything and gain almost nothing whereas a woman has it the opposite way.

Men and women are not equal to each other. They are complimentary to each other. We have our respective strengths and weaknesses. When one part of this equation becomes dysfunctional, the other will follow pretty soon. It has.

I'm very cynical about how society pushes romance and marriage as a cure all to a person's lack of purpose and meaning in life, and how following those message can make someone's life worse. But to say that that is how it is all the time I don't think is accurate either.

I would encourage you to read this post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen/comments/cr7oo9/romantic_love_as_the_basis_for/

Regarding requiring a virgin: Men look for innocence in women. Women look for mastery in men. You should be able to Google and find various studies where it is established that men strongly prefer neotenous features in women. This does not stop with external appearance. Opposites attract. Men look for innocent, feminine, kind, gentle, chaste women. They do not want opinionated, loud, intolerable, used up women who are a poor imitation of men.

When the market is saturated with used cars, men might consider buying them for a discount. But when these used cars demand a premium price, they would rather pay the little extra and go for the new car. Those who can afford the new car outright won't even bother with the used cars. Those who cannot will either start looking at other markets or will give up or start saving for a new car.

u/where_muh_good_mens

[–]where_muh_good_mens 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't give up on him yet. I used to be that way. I used to hold out hope that men and women can be equal if given the chance. I thought this way until enough evidence piled up that it was undeniable. It also helped to no longer be a pussy worshipping hormonal teen.

Then I thought that men and women compliment each other. Similar to what u/moorekom said. I thought that we each have strengths and weaknesses and we were more or less equal in the end. But that too has been shattered by evidence and reality. Sure, there are a handful of things in which women are better than men, but for the overwhelming majority of things, men are better stronger faster smarter than women.

Furthermore, if you write a list of things that men do for women, husbands do for wives, sons do for mothers etc, solely to benefit the woman - you'll find plenty of stuff.

Now compile a list of things that women do solely for men. If you can name a single item, I'd like to know what it is 😉

[–]where_muh_good_mens 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]moorekomUrban Hoe Guerrilla 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]where_muh_good_mens 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, that is what is so interesting though. I don't think he thinks he is happy. That is why he comes here, to feel good about his secured and locked in forever position. There is just no going back to being the dominant force in your relationship ever again. You set such a high standard for a woman to follow and then later decide she didn't follow that standard or you are putting in more effort (of course, lol). Nope, you are stuck now for life, being placed at the same level of agency for the relationship, but contributing twice as much. Being at the same level of emotional dependence as the woman but she is the only one ever supported.

Nahh, he is here and probably comes back to these places just like he says he does, because he needs to validate his piss poor decisions. A good way to do that is to think of everyone that is free as an unhappy bitter incel. Start up an obviously opposing point of view, but cordial enough that you want to see where it's going. They all end the same, "welp I've used up my beating around the bush credits this week, thanks for reminding me what bitter assholes you are and how you are missing out on happiness and fullfiling lifes purpose"

He's on a loop, he is the one in prison, he is the one that needs to convince himself his life means something. Really, it was a good case study.

[–]moorekomUrban Hoe Guerrilla 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He is not happy. That's for sure. A guy who is happy is not even going to entertain the other side. He might never look or he will be completely dismissive.

Anytime any guy mentions equality or egalitarianism or compromise in a relationship, it means that he is compromising and has succumbed to the long con. This is what girls do. Women who are trying to control you go about it in exactly two ways: overt manipulation and covert manipulation. Feminism is overt control. Being submissive, cute, playful and trying to control you through that is covert. Only when it becomes clear to her that you cannot be manipulated does she either leave you or submit.

He is definitely not red pill. He is not completely blue pill either. He's worse. He's in between. He's purple pill. I've noticed his tendency to talk down in his replies. That's because he wants to justify to himself that he's aware but he's not an asshole like us. Notice his reply to mine. He understands the current dynamic. He has been affected by it. But he's just not willing to let go. He's not yet at that point. He wants middle ground, where he's comfortable now.

As u/loneliness-inc mentions, he's not far off. He might get there eventually. Or he might just remain where he remains. The problem is, for him to get here, he'll have to go through heart break and pain. Possibly depression. I don't know if I want to push this guy to that. If someone is plugged in and (despite your efforts) wants to be plugged in, let him stay plugged in. It is not our job to unplug everyone. We are here to help those who are already unplugged and those who want to be unplugged. From his reactions, it is extremely clear that he is neither. Why waste time on him? Let him have his empty victory.

[–]DemianskyJr. Hamster Analyst 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Since you took the time to write something, I felt it was courteous to reply. I don't disagree with much of your descriptions. I'm a biologist. I was banished from a University sociology class once for suggesting that there was sexual dimorphism between men and women, and that gender wasn't a social construct. So no, I don't buy the idea that men and women are literally the same. It'd be nice to talk about the subtleties where I veer off from your perspectives up above, but judging by the comments I've got in this thread, I don't think anyone will read anything I say, and a straw man will be plopped where I stand.

But thanks for confirming what I was suspecting about the general perspectives that fly around in here. Every time I've roamed around in the manosphere I've always gotten the same feeling among academic feminists, and I've got the same feeling with the two mods that spoke in here. Same attitude, same high priests enforcing the doctrine, same conviction that everyone but themselves are in an echo chamber despite all parroting the same ideas between each other, over and over, both bitter and miserable. Not sure I ever expect to hear anything innovative, but you never know until you go. Funny enough, if you distilled down everything that the manosphere had to say, it'd be identical to the feminist postmodern philosophy-- just turned completely on its head. As always, the truth is probably somewhere in the boring middle.

[–]DemianskyJr. Hamster Analyst 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Looks like he rose to the challenge. I'll avoid numeration this time.

Pretty much everything you say up above is true if your premise is that the only legit version of marriage is a Victorian Age marriage (which some people expect). But why are we beholden to just that version? You brushed over it quickly by saying "in any sane society, marriage is A,B, C" as though its a given that something like an egalitarian marriage is somehow innately bad for reasons. But if my own true egalitarian version of marriage works and its produced a 20 year marriage, a household with 2 high quality children, a household income well above the median, sexual fidelity between partners, and fulfillment for everyone, why should I defer to some traditionalist notion that I have no desire for anyway? It works for the well being of society, and it works for me, so what other box must be checked?

Why do you insist that the "man is (solely) responsible for protection and provision for his wife and children"? What if, in addition to working, I want to play an equal role in raising my children? What if I want a peer in my wife who finds fulfillment in work, and not a pliant pawn? What if I like putting in my ear buds, listening to a history podcast, and doing some housework myself? And if those responsibilities in marriage works for me, why would you try to convince me that somehow its wrong? My position is that there isn't one right answer for everyone when it comes to love and relationships. Some people will be happier alone. Some will be happier in some permutation of marriage. Some will be happiest in a relationship but unmarried. Some will enjoy being the Chad (and others will feel pressured to be the Chad, succeed, and be miserable their entire lives). If what you do for yourself works and isn't hurting anyone, all power to you. I'm not going to try to make an argument about how you aren't REALLY happy.

I know what I'm saying here probably isn't Twitter short or quippy or negative enough to meet the quota of this sub, so forgive me. I liked that you did a longer form analysis earlier, and so I thought I'd throw in mine.

[–]where_muh_good_mens 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]where_muh_good_mens 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-incLvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]where_muh_good_mens2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ahh yes, that is my sentiment put into words. Thanks. Men want to contribute hearthily (new word), work hard and preserve their property interests. Women want to sever mens' interests from themselves in order to focus on her. Since she has nothing to lose by capitalizing on this innate drive in men to provide and protect her, then that leaves only her conscious decision to rebel against her biological and socially accepted roles.

I guess in that instance and where she is even able to invest more than what her community expects of her, then you could consider an egalitarian hetero relationship. The problem is it is rare and people are lazy, but also her community must encourage it by holding her accountable.

I have no doubt in my imagination that a society out there supports an egalitarian framework. Where their incorporating doctrine describes the legal separation of dependents and incompetents from those who take agency for it. Actually, this seems to be where all the confusion stands within the minds of your average happy-go-lucky conservative wage slave and their antithesis, the ornery make-everything-free idealist. I mean, none of these people truly understand what a free world could look like. They are so stuck on their own desires and entitlements from the existence of those social systems that they forgot how to think beyond anything but.

Similarly that such a society couldn't exist because it is an evolution of the human condition, one in which men are uncorruptible, or create/discover a caretaker that cannot be corrupted. Clearly God is the only non-sinner sovereign, but greed in men is a much stronger temptation than seeking His glory. This does make me ponder the only question that seems to matter when putting together the future, is there hope that man would willingly serve the only uncorruptible force in the universe over their own self inspired interests and aversion to responsibility?

I think that God is known to all, even those who profess otherwise on it's deepest and most logical level. But, I think the important lesson here is that He didn't make women accountable or to hold themselves responsible. And for that reason, there will never be a truly egalitarian relationship; only one that could mimic the essence of what it stands for. Like the concept of random; it is mathematically unobtainable and we can only explain what should be.

[–]loneliness-inc2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Individual liberty and freedom comes with the responsibility to do all the things to sustain and maintain your life. Most women are incapable of doing all the things. Furthermore, women are the natural caregivers of the helpless children.

Thus, women are collectivists and not individualists!

This is how God made them and for good reason. Because this nurturing is what small children need. However, a society built upon collectivist ideals will inevitably collapse. Just look at any communist country. God counterbalanced this by giving natural authority to men and even more natural authority to men.

However, women today have the right to vote. This gives them authority over the government but they don't have to bear the burden of responsibility for their votes. Thus, you have a big daddy government that's ballooning out of control....

You and I can't change the direction of the country, but we can do our best to keep authority and responsibility married to each other.

[–]where_muh_good_mens2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-inc1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DemianskyJr. Hamster Analyst 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your straightforward honesty. It's tedious to have to drill down past someone's defences to know what they really think. I mean, I can't really argue with you because the things you say are hyperbolic, ambiguous, and I suspect mainly meant to be provocative, but it's still good to know where you are coming from. Would you say most people on this sub feel this way?

I've spent enough years popping into the Red Pill/PUO/MRA/Chateau Heartiste internet milieu to know that this is a common attitude. I've also noticed that most of you guys are deeply unhappy and bitter, an unhappiness and bitterness that is magnified by this philosophy. I feel bad for a lot of you guys, because heterosexual men have basically become the only acceptable demographic for our society to crap on. An entire generation of men is sinking into purposeless and despair, and no one gives a shit. Subs like these seem and that attitudes that swirl around in here I think are a telling incarnation of that purposelessness and despair.

But maybe you can help me understand something. Purportedly, the Red Pill philosophy its about staring "the unhappy truth" of love and romance in the face as opposed to accepting a soothing lie. And sure, I personally think that in general its about 50 percent accurate (I just think echo chambers tend to amplify reasonable observations to comical and unhinged extremes). But have you ever stopped to self reflect on whether you are wrong?

If you are right (maybe you are?) then what you have to gain is loneliness and sadness (if we are to take as evidence some of your Reddit names). But if you are wrong, you get the exact same thing. As for me, if I'm right, I get to go on living my fulfilling life. If I'm wrong, well, I just end up where a lot of you guys are either way.

Anyway, even if you ridicule me, I still sympathize with where a lot of your guys are at in life. I hope you aren't right (for both of us).

[–]where_muh_good_mens 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You have come to a place where men find after being rejected and giving the riot act from women in their youth, who are only now being approached by those same women to settle down and pay full price for the sex she gave away for free. If you really have spent all that time in the manosphere contemplating how men feel and are able to sympathize with them due to no faults of their own, then I really don't think you want "to understand why this is". You've been married 20 years? Your perspective is that of a successful partner and great kids. What more could you ask for? Why the hell would you even bother? You are [getting your value for your time and money spent]. You are the winner, one of the few. Great! I'm happy for you. No really, I truly am. Our sub doesn't exist for you. Our content doesn't show the perils of healthy functioning women that make good decisions and find a man to commit to them early on. What the fuck did you actually expect when you look back at your life and determine none of the "RedPills" would have added any value to your life. You seem like a pretty smart cookie, but your comments just come across as patronizing and self-loathing. It would be like walking into a support group for drug users and claiming, "I did drugs for years and look at me with my business suit. See guise!? You can take all the drugs you want and end up just like me". Bitch please.

because heterosexual men have basically become the only acceptable demographic for our society to crap on.

So you are saying men and women are not treated equally in society, but somehow men and women are equal.

But have you ever stopped to self reflect on whether you are wrong?

I don't adopt the Red Pill Philosophy that you are referring to. I agree to a certain extent that the red pill is a suffering mitigation technique, but that is about it. If you desire relationships with women, then studying how they operate is a prudent endeavor. Red pillers think they just have to game the system and all the happiness of yester-year will be at their finger tips. The idea is to cast alphaness onto a beta frame. Then present that as the fantasy all women are after. The rest of your life is supporting that frame and keeping her interested with drama and dread. No thanks. Also, to your point that isn't the echo sphere. That is the anti-echo sphere. The echo sphere is the blue-pill, nothing to see here, keep working on courting women and be kind, the right one will come along that is right for you. Basically your entire point is from the echo sphere. The manosphere is the exact opposite. Women are chaotic, inferior, undeserving, entitled, and supported by society. If you want to get with one, then you will have to put in work, not to court them, but work on yourself to be able to give them the shallow fantasy of the desirable man they are all looking for.

So, wrong about what exactly? The Bible directly reinforces female irresponsibility. Eve was not held accountable for the great sin, Adam was. Women are not held accountable in society, men are. All you are saying is, "Well me and my wife are equal, so we are directly opposing your point of view on men and women". Like I said, you only have your personal anecdotal evidence, but somehow claim you come from the high ground. No, brother, you in the shit of the plantation with rose colored glasses on.

But if you are wrong, you get the exact same thing.

Humans are not robots. You cannot just say, "because you don't have what I have, then you must not be happy like I am". You seem smart enough to realize this. I would argue that I am much more happy than you could ever imagine. I have everything I need and discovered long ago that a mans' happiness is rooted solely within his own devices and will. If you are equal to your wife, then you are co-dependent with her. Your happiness is derived from hers. Arguably, because I have no limitations to what happiness I derive from myself, that I am and will always be more happy than someone that relies on someone else.

I still sympathize with where a lot of your guys are at in life.

If you knew what has happened in my life, maybe you would sympathize with me. But you don't, so this is just as empty and shallow as your plantation programming directed you to be.

[–]DemianskyJr. Hamster Analyst -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like you are making a lot of assumptions about my positions that aren't at all true. The answer to why I would bother spending time in the manosphere: because there is literally no where else to go academically to understand "what it means to be a man now a days." Way back in college when I signed up for a gender studies class, I thought I'd get a deep dive in understanding masculinity in a post industrial age. Instead I got an anti-male screed in the guise of scholasticism. And just because I checked off the part of my life involving marital fulfillment, that doesn't mean I don't struggle with other aspects of being a man in the modern world. To make a long story short, I learned that the breadth of purpose a man is allowed to have in our society is far more narrow than a woman's.

Girls from a young age now are told they can be corporate ceos or astronaughts or scientists or construction workers or doctors or nurses or pre-school teachers or stay at home moms or caretakers... all of these things are socially perceived to be purposeful pursuits for women. And for men? We're still all stuck in the 19th century. If you are a man, your value is what you earn. If you try to find purpose disproportionately in raising your kids or some other mechanism of nurture, you must be a creep or a pedo or something worse. So in my own life? I feel like to avoid those stigmas, I've gotta work 60 hours a week to be valuable to society if I also want to pursue a life as a dedicated parent. It's turned out I've eekeed a good life for myself, but I feel like I shouldn't be treated like--- as so many feminists say--- "a rapist who just hasn't raped yet." No man deserves to be stuck with this original sin.

But like I said, there is literally no where to discuss or understand these sublties in a calm way, so I'll pop into some corner of the manosphere or feminist circles for awhile to see if there's some trail of breadcrumbs to someplace constructive. Some true egalitarian movement. But of course, it's always the same. Vitriol and bitterness and people pretending to be the things that they are socially pressured into being despite not being that thing deep down inside. Sometimes in places like this, I loose track of whether or not I'm at Jezebel. You guys are far more alike than you know.

Anyway, I'm busy and I've completely used up my weekly alotted Reddit bandwidth. Maybe I'll ease my mind a bit and take your very assertive advice: you do make a very convincing argument that people like you aren't worth caring about. I might just take your word for it.

[–]where_muh_good_mens2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Some true egalitarian movement.

Men and women aren't equal, yah dolt.

Vitriol and bitterness

I'm not bitter. Sounds like you just want to validate your own life, so you look at bachelors and try to reason with the fact that will never be you, free and unencumbered. Like I said, you seem to have it all figured out, so there is no reason to bother otherwise. You're just unhappy and want to make sure men that haven't made the life long commitment you made are more unhappy. Sorry sucka, I'm have more capacity for my own happiness than you ever will. That isn't an assumption, that is a fact, one that I proved with logic.

you do make a very convincing argument that people like you aren't worth caring about.

You are doing internet wrong if you think anyone else gives a shit about you. Maybe that's why you have to seek validation of your own decisions. Co-dependent on your wife for emotional support and dependent on internet strangers to reinforce your ideals. What a sad existence, no wonder why you have so much trouble determining what "it means to be a man now a days". Men, like me, never questioned it because it is exactly what I say it is. Dependents, like you, can never understand that from your position of self-professed inferiority.

cc; u/loneliness-inc What an interesting case study. Thank you for bringing him to my attention.

[–]loneliness-inc1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RF111164 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SamsAdvice 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]StrongAttitude 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Great analysis again, thanks Mod.

I didn't think much about these small details before because getting women into my bed was not difficult; I didn't need to understand them to do that, all I need was dressing nicely, talking in a calm manner, and showing off my car as well as my "wallet" (rolex watch, LV belt). Then they would actively show me signs of them wanting me. This method works like a charm; that's why there are guys who bought Lamboghini just to get sex (in the long term, it's much cheaper than getting prostitutes, once you bought the car, countless number of 20 years old puzzies want you to fuck them; then you can sell the car off 10 years later when you want to retire from dating game; I'd say it's not a bad investment at all)

However, understading women makes me feel more "enlightented" than ever; I feel so free after discovering the so-called "manosphere" bro. This is what knowledge and wisdom feels like.

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Title	Yet another one asks the big question while showing off her assets that only Chad will get to enjoy.
Author	SilverGryphon
Upvotes	391
Comments	105
Date	September 22, 2019 11:20 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen/comments/d7p4fz/yet_another_one_asks_the_big_question_while/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen/yet-another-one-asks-the-big-question-while.344078 https://theredarchive.com/post/344078

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