Mikael's Map.

screechhater · 2016-07-26T01:35:26+00:00

Dude Sounds like she ain't finding you attractive after what ever your illness was, or, she never was that attracted anyway

I would highly recommend to kill any and all covert contracts like your date night shit expectations.

quit fucking around with all the exercise bullshit and lift, lift hard 3 days a week.

I believe she treats me like a “girlfriend with a penis,” so my response is to treat her like a “roommate with a vagina.” I started speaking to her in these terms: “I like that you take care of yourself. I want to take care of myself for you and I expect the same from you. By all means, spend my money on Yoga, makeup etc but I expect to benefit from all this too in terms of your companionship, intimacy and so on.”

Your wall of text is mangina diarrhea and you are not attractive.

Read, STFU, Lift and kill your ego May have to start all over again.

FireTempered · 2016-07-26T01:53:09+00:00

You are started on a reasonable path considering your current frame of mind.

Your primary target, for now, is not sex, but is to work on your body and your frame of mind.

Lifting is the beginning point of making your commitment to YOURSELF. Continue to read and experiment with what you learn.

I know that for many men, the words that she does not find you attractive are hard to bear. Your ego will defend you against these attacks, and, your ego is wrong. Your ego helped you justify all the shitty behaviors you have, and, those behaviors set her lack of attraction in motion.

Lift, read, lurk, post on OYS

Good luck, you have a lot of work to do, but you are one of many.

UEMcGill · 2016-07-26T13:37:24+00:00

1-2 times a week a workout at the gym

And then I stopped reading. If you wont commit to working on it, why should I commit to giving you a supportive answer? There's literally no program out there that ever said "Lift heavy 1-2 times a week and get jacked!" Hint, lifting is not about lifting.

jigglydee · 2016-07-26T02:45:21+00:00

First Question. How long have you been together/married? Current living arrangements? Why are you with her? Did you ever have a strong healthy bedroom?

Tried once and it was OK for me, but she did not like it that much.

she still does not want to French kiss or have unprotected sex of any kind with me

Have tried speaking shamelessly to her about sex but seems too direct for her

her “cockblocks” alternate from health scares to her being unable to force herself to want to do it with me.

In general, she is very shy about flirting or kissing in public.

She does not respond well to my Kino

and finally this:

I think she is simply lacking attraction and/or dread with me to put out consistently.

Yeah, wake up a little and remove the 'think'. She definitely lacks attraction. Own that and accept that fact right now.

My next question, and importantly who is the MAP for? Re-read your post and give me an honest answer?

I still want to do MAP because even we split up, I want to become a solid man just myself.

I want you to re-frame this and give me an honest answer here.

This I just found amusing:

Not sure if I can outrank her – she does Yoga (I cannot), works out (much less than me). What the hell makes you believe this?

Alright I was actually going to break down your post a little more since you've put effort into it yourself. Instead I'll say this.

You are on the right track, continue reading the sidebar. I sense a certain mentality holding you back. You don't believe in yourself and I don't think you even believe you can do this. You might as well come out and say that you are a loser because that's how you truly feel and behave. You haven't said what your health issue is so not sure if that is stopping you from attaining confidence. But it shouldn't.

First and foremost, re-read your post and look at where your focus is. Although you've come here asking help on YOUR MAP, the post reeks of you trying to win your wife's affections and validation. It's all about her man. It's not about you. So make it about YOU. That's why I ask you the question earlier. Go monk mode. Work on your self- only to better your self. Idealise your perfect self and work towards that - without seeking validation from your wife. You are your mission! hereon, not your wife, nor her affection, nor her validation.

Secondly, your MAP above is too much for you. Break it down further into realistic goals. You've given yourself too many things to do. What are your timeframes around this MAP? how long do you give yourself? or are you expecting to miraculously turn on a switch and realise all your goals? DO you know what happens when you want to achieve all those things in one go? Nothing. You'll achieve none of them. So one step at a time mate, one step at a time.

Continue along the sidebar mate, collect your thoughts when in Monk Mode.

Read, STFU, Lift and kill your ego May have to start all over again.

u/screechhater, I'm actually going to say this instead:

Read, STFU, Lift and DEVELOP an ego. Start all over again. Op is behaving like a loser, no self respect, no confidence. I don't think he's got an ego and needs to develop one! instead.

Blackthorn8 · 2016-07-26T14:00:08+00:00

Jesus....I think I got ED reading this. No wonder she doesn't want to fuck you.

The funny thing is I remember doing the same routine long ago. You're running around doing 1,000 different things trying to "fake" an alpha persona and then trying to gauge the immediate response from your woman. It doesn't work that way. Women can smell a poser from a mile away. This shit takes time...Time for you to actually become the man you should be and time for her to figure out what the fuck happened.

My advice is to kind of "forget" you are married. What would you want your life to look like if she wasn't around? Figure that out and start working towards that vision. Begin to focus on the big picture and forget about measuring daily successes or failures with her as that is the quickest way to derail your momentum.

Blackthorn8 · 2016-07-26T12:33:51+00:00

This is a lot of text.

Here's my take-

Your exercise routine is weak. Lift heavy weights 3-6 times a weak, the other shit is just for your enjoyment.

Don't live and die with every event or rejection from your wife. If you have any kind of frame, look internally, you should see you are a man becoming something. When you see it, the rest of the world will begin to see it.

If you have realized your wife is not the only woman out there, then take some fucking risks. Don't worry about failing. HAVE FUN. If you are having fun, she will have fun. If she shits on you, laugh in her face. You will figure out what works, if not for her than the next.

Why are you taking her on date nights if she isn't behaving well?

Do what you want to do, she can come along if she wants, or she can soak her fucking dishes while you have fun. If she is sulking and giving you silent treatment when you return- great- now you do not have to give her affection and shit when she is not willing to fuck.

Here's some things you can do: play mini-golf, go karts, shoot skeet, (Family Alpha has a bob ross night, i thought this was a good idea) you can go hiking, go swimming anywhere, Pistol range, rifle range, if you are near the mountains then go ATVing or ziplining mountain biking. Do whatever the fuck you want, she can come or stay, up to her.

druganswer · 2016-07-26T23:25:31+00:00

Okay, I'll bite for a line by line analysis even though this could probably be summed up pretty succinctly.

Self Care

It's your body and your goals and your eventual outcome. Control what you put in your body. Myfitnesspal is a great app for watching your calories and macros. Decide your goals: Gain muscle? Lose weight? Then research online and find your daily caloric needs to meet your goals. If I had to tell you one thing: protein, protein, protein... you can't go wrong with it. We can't do all of this for you, but if you need more help someone on a fitness sub probably would give you some in depth help if you asked nicely.

Meditation

Hobbies/Social Life/Fun – this is, probably, the weakest point – having a hard time finding ways to reward myself for good behavior.

Good behavior? These things are supposed to be fun... They are the reward. To me, it sounds like you're so consumed by your wife that you don't know how to have a good time without her... or maybe it's without her validation or something. But the hobby should be the reward. Find things you like to do.

Overtly asking for what I need and want: I am getting better at this – calling my shots and facing the consequences. Rejection from my wife still hurts though and I don’t have a solid routine how to court/seduce her.

I'm not sure I get this... you mean initiating?

Switch out the soda and coffee for a protein shake in the morning. Minimal caffeine and sugar drinks. Casein protein shake after workouts

I don't think caffeine is that bad. Sugar is terrible. What type of protein you take matters very minimally. Get your overall diet on point for your goals. Big picture.

Start exercising with weights

Yes. Always, not just weekends.

Learn her menstrual cycle Period Tracker App installed. I use it to watch her PMS and Ovulation, as well keep a brief diary. Athol Kay: Ovulation - “This is when she is most likely to experience orgasms, want multiple orgasms, be the wettest, cheat on you and generally seek raw dog Alpha Male pounding.”

Some guys will disagree, but I don't think it matters as much at the beginning and is a waste of your time and resources. I would suggest thinking/obsessing less about her at the beginning stages. This just puts more of your effort and resources into analyzing her behavior. She doesn't want to be fucked hard by you around ovulation... so thinking this is just going to build up covert contracts every month.

Practicing “boundaries” with her – externalizing my problems onto her so that life does not seem too peachy for her. She does not care about porn or sex. In her view the deadbedroom situation is just my problem – “I love you but I am not in love with you” kind of thing.

Not sure how you transitioned between these topics here. Externalizing your problems onto her? Like... make her life shitty if she doesn't do what you want? Don't do that. She's also right, the deadbedroom is your problem... since she doesn't see it as a problem at all.

Do the ten second kiss at least daily

Don't worry about this... yet. Give yourself 6 months in the gym and then you can work back into this kind of behavior. Beginning is all about YOU.

Tell her what kind of sex you want before you go into the bedroom (don’t settle for bad sex)

If there's already pressure on sex, this is going to backfire. Just have sex with her and if she's seeming more into it than usual, try something new or different. Less conversations about sex.

Joking, flirting, dirty talk behavior does not work with her even though it is fun for me. Wanting to switch to a more direct mature instigation but not good at this.

If it is fun for you keep doing it. When she rejects your advances or doesn't play along, don't get your ego all hurt and you will be just fine. Direct mature instigation is kissing, grabbing, taking off clothes. Not words... If you use a serious tone and "I'm going to fuck your brains out tonight," type lingo and she doesn't view you that way, you're just going to make her creeped out and confused. This is way down the line stuff... don't do that yet.

Athol Kay: “All a woman needs to do to make you happy is do some mix of working a job and keeping the house, be reasonably enjoyable company and have a functional vagina that she happily lets you use.”

This is the absolute bare minimum... I would try to have higher standards.

Not sure if I can outrank her – she does Yoga (I cannot), works out (much less than me). We are about equal in this department.

She doesn't think so. And if you're actually equal then a year in the gym will put you way above her.

I am not a natural born leader, rather a reluctant leader. I can lead for some time, but then I just get tired and want to follow.

Time to change that. Sorry it's so hard. Just reframe your perception of yourself to liking to lead and start from there.

Am getting better than expressing my wants and needs more openly though. She does not respond to my bold behavior too well (I am not good at “sweeping her off her feet” with surprises, decisiveness etc). She makes me regret not discussing things with her in advance pretty quickly.

Don't do it for her, do fun and unusual things for yourself... invite her along if you would like. It all boils down to her being attracted to you, though. If you are attractive to her, you can say "let's go walk through this corn field tonight" and then fuck her in a sweaty mess on the ground and she will think it's "so romantic" ... if you disgust her, you can buy her a 5* dinner at a nice resort and she will think you're "just trying to buy her sex."

This is the part I definitely need help with. How to “train” her properly? What are my carrot and stick? If I court her and she rejects me, what should I do? I do not want to spend the whole weekend with her if all she wants to do is shop, watch TV and browse Instagram (aka “porn for women.”)

Don't be so reactive to her rejections. But your carrot is your time and attention (and commitment... but save that for later). If she's not being the wife you want, go do other things. If you would like her company, invite her. If you aren't digging her company, don't. When she starts being the wife you want, you will naturally want to hang out with her more often.... Think of it as a gradient... as she starts doing more things you like, gradient of time/attention slide her way... or the opposite.

Athol Kay: “If she declines sex, it’s no big deal to you.” “Don’t become angry, frustrated, insulting, bad tempered, grumpy, sullen or otherwise freeze her out.” In general, I do not want to ignore her bad behavior. Since she is better at arguing than me, I started keeping a diary and writing in a notebook everything she does wrong and all the compromises I make for her.

Get rid of your victim mentality. Don't know what else to say about this line.

Practicing to ask for sex directly – just not yet good at being graceful because I think my dirty talk is too vulgar for her.

LOL get rid of the autism on asking her for sex. Initiate sex. And your dirty talk is too vulgar because she's never thought of you as a dirty talk type guy. She isn't sexually attracted to you. If she was, the dirty talk would be hot.

I believe she treats me like a “girlfriend with a penis,” so my response is to treat her like a “roommate with a vagina.” I started speaking to her in these terms: “I like that you take care of yourself. I want to take care of myself for you and I expect the same from you. By all means, spend my money on Yoga, makeup etc but I expect to benefit from all this too in terms of your companionship, intimacy and so on.”

Stop communicating that you are improving yourself "for her." You sound like a complete pussy. Stop telling her to spend money looking hot so that you can dick her down. She doesn't want your dick.

This one I still don’t know how it’s supposed to work because if I learn her alone absolutely nothing happens. Most of the time she is just waiting for the “discomfort” of penetration to be over as quickly as possible.

Go to the gym. Get muscles. Get a nice haircut. Go to a nice store and get some style tips from the people that work there. You desperately need some social skills it sounds like, so this might help you in more ways than one. Then when she winces at the thought of your dick being in her you will be in a sound position to get some on the side or move on.

I started doing more of this: If I want to go somewhere, I will tell her so and ask her to join me. Often she declines and then punishes me through sulking and silent treatment when I do go by myself.

Perfect, alone time! And good thing she isn't around you... else that sulking and shit might have a chance to bother you. If she's still sulking when you're done, go do more alone stuff! Be your own person! Yay.

Sext Messages

Worry about this shit after you are least having regular and decent sex.

I do like going on dates with her, holding hands, hugging but that is about as much as she lets me in public. If a date does not end with some kind of sex, I lose my motivation and do not want to spend the rest of the day or the next day with her. Any advice how not to lose interest?

Covert contract. Get rid of it. Go do things on date night that you like to do. If she doesn't want to do them, yay! More alone time!

I went into this way too deep. Going line by line on these huge lists isn't really as helpful as you think. Hopefully I could help out a little. Unlike some guys here, it seems like you at least want to change.

rf_mikael · 2016-07-27T04:23:55+00:00

Appreciate all the time and keystrokes you invested, guys. Red Pill is not easy to swallow and, of course, we all have egos.

My situation. Guys, I married her almost three years and things were about as good as can get for a “nice guy.” In other words, a lot of covert contracts, hidden anger and frustration building up in me. Sex was pretty regular but she did not really reciprocate that much and defended her boundaries well. I continued watching porn and fantasies on a regular basis.

Shit happened. Now I realize it happens to pretty much everyone. I got sick with cancer and spent two months in the hospital, harsh chemo. We had to give up the apartment and live with my parents for about two years. I lucked out – the treatment worked and I am cured now. Been back at work for slightly over a year now. I’ve been living with my wife in a new apartment since the beginning of this year. Health is OK now, I am off the meds and been trying to get my life back together.

I tried swallowing the Red Pill about a year ago but did not have the guts for it when we lived with my parents. But I found a really good road map on the NMMNG forums and been following that. That’s how I got involved in Toastmasters and now in a men’s support group.

The men’s group is really helping me because I was pretty much raised by women and never really had to face men in sports or military.

Your advices:

“Read, STFU, Lift and kill your ego” “Lift, read, lurk, post on OYS” “1-2 times a week a workout at the gym” “Your exercise routine is weak. Lift heavy weights 3-6 times a >weak, the other shit is just for your enjoyment.” “Lift and get your diet on point is a great starting point in making >yourself more attractive, but it is also a great exercise in goal >setting and consistently putting effort into something.”

Q: What if you didn’t need to have big muscles to be attractive and to get women and sex, would you still lift as much?

“Continue along the sidebar mate, collect your thoughts when in >Monk Mode.” “Read, STFU, Lift and DEVELOP an ego.” “Myfitnesspal is a great app for watching your calories and >macros.”

I have done it before – but of all the lifting and kickboxing all that remained on my body after my illness was banged up shins.

My attitude about lifting is pretty much the same as about studying or working – I only want to do it if I like it and see it as an end in itself. Otherwise, it’s never enough and always leads me to frustration.

Here’s a quote from W Anton that stuck with me:

“It is ridiculous how motivated most males can be, following the >belief that women will like them in the end.”

Which is why I am not going to bust my ass lifting super heavy weights, eating tons of meat and taking all those supplements that gave me a crapload of side effects. In fact, the only protein shake I drink now is casein – the only thing that I can take regularly w/o side effects.

As for the workouts my attitude now is to get through all the routines on my phone app diligently even if I have to use the lightest weights.

About what to do:

“Do whatever the fuck you want, she can come or stay, up to >her.” “My advice is to kind of "forget" you are married. What would you >want your life to look like if she wasn't around?”

Yes, I agree – I am learning to overcome my “toxic shame” and her guilt trips. I don’t want to turn down invitations and miss out on quality time with relatives and friends just because she is not in the mood. I hate being ashamed – first of being single, then of being married to a woman who does not want to visit my parents, relatives, go to concerts with me etc.

It’s tough. I was ready to divorce her by the end of the year, but then I found out that I still need to be married to her for at least another half a year or so (for reasons I’d rather not share in public).

Why do I want to divorce her?

Because I don't appreciate her "divine feminine essence." Because I would rather be with someone who shares my cautious optimism about life. Because I no longer see it as my failure as a man/husband. Nor do I see any heroism in remaining unhappily married, tolerating etc. How does society benefit from my marriage (or all mariages?) Who will be at a loss if we divorced? For now I came to terms that we have another half a year or so of practicing communication, embracing the void… But there’s nothing more frustrating that hopeless and being stuck in limbo: neither can leave her nor improve our life together.

“She's also right, the deadbedroom is your problem... since she >doesn't see it as a problem at all.”

Of course, because I’m already married to her. Why would it be a problem for her unless she had her own sex drive? Plus, of course, she's never wrong, never makes mistakes. In fact, her only "bad" behavior is in response to my own even worse previously beforehand.

“Give yourself 6 months in the gym and then you can work back >into this kind of behavior. Beginning is all about YOU.”

So, what am I supposed to do with her in the meantime? If we weren’t married, I would break up with her for good and focus on myself. But I can’t divorce her, can’t separate from her for now. So, I’m stuck – if anyone’s in dread, it’s me!

“Direct mature instigation is kissing, grabbing, taking off clothes.” Yeah, I’ve been remembering that being more mature about sex has worked well with other women but with her I too easily slip into this childish kind of flirting, giggling.

“It all boils down to her being attracted to you, though.” Yes, I understand – attraction is not a choice. Like Athol says: she can make herself to have sex with me but she can’t make herself to want to have sex with me. Only I can (can’t help but to be sarcastic) – because as a man I am an animal with instant boners, willing to poke anyone anytime even if she’s not nice, respectful to me, my family, takes me for granted, does not share my worldview etc.

“Stop communicating that you are improving yourself "for her." You sound like a complete pussy. Stop telling her to spend money looking hot so that you can dick her down. She doesn't want your dick.” OK, so you believe in my “taking care of self just for self” and not to be the best man I can be so I can love others well?” If she doesn’t want my dick, maybe I would do a great favor to some other guy whose dick she would want? Seems much easier than doing all this work on myself so she naturally starts wanting me. I mean, come on, I will become a player, and I don’t need to in order to get laid once a month or so.

Thanks, everyone, I will definitely continue reading all the articles about lifting, monk mode etc.

P.S. Still learning the formatting...

Persaeus · 2016-07-26T14:40:28+00:00

OP, was the "illness" of a sexual (STD) nature or something else.

PS, you have got some good comments. You will get a lot more out of this process if you answer commenters questions and interact with MRP. Just sayin.....

RealEstateRockstar · 2016-07-26T16:10:46+00:00

Athol Kay: “By actually reducing the pressure on her to initiate sex, blow you, wear the lingerie, or whatever, she’s got no reason to get her shields up.” “When you stop pushing on her, all that’s left motivating her sexual behavior is her own sex drive… She’s not going to shield herself from doing something with you that she wants to do.” This one I still don’t know how it’s supposed to work because if I learn her alone absolutely nothing happens. Most of the time she is just waiting for the “discomfort” of penetration to be over as quickly as possible. She has never ever initiated sex nor asked for more.

I have this same problem. The "discomfort". How in the hell have you guys overcame this?

weakandsensitive · 2016-07-26T20:10:13+00:00

need help putting together specific things I can do as part of the MAP

Don't worry. I got you.

Stop being a lazy faggot.
Repeat step 1.
Pussy.

Title	Mikael's Map.
Author	rf_mikael
Upvotes	6
Comments	20
Date	July 26, 2016 12:54 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4ulyvj/mikaels_map/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/mikaels-map.207294 https://theredarchive.com/post/207294

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