Does "never out-shine your master" work

MattyAnon · 2021-03-01T15:50:46+00:00

TLDR: Boss taking my sales to meet his quota. Do I speak up or keep my head down and work?

Find a better job, this situation probably can't be resolved.

____Weabooo_V2 · 2021-03-01T11:43:51+00:00

Stand your ground, don’t allow him to walk over you. Give them an inch they’ll take a mile

ylawzy · 2021-03-01T14:04:28+00:00

Like others said stand your ground but you need to be sophisticated with how you do this. If it’s a college job, it probably sucks but just focus on college and be fake friends with your boss in the mean time.

BajaGhia · 2021-03-01T15:46:21+00:00

Hierarchial corporate structures are prone to corruption. Don't try to fight it, but see it and work your way through it. If you can dodge a wrench....

You are probably on ramp, which means that you'll get paid at 100% the first month or two and then for hitting 33% of individual goal the third month, 66% the fourth month, and finally be responsible for 100% on month five and on. This is just an illustration and you'll need to read and know your comp plan, including charge back periods.

It is tradition in retail commission structures to let the new guy do the sales parts and the veterans collect. It's a sucky tradition, but you'll be asking for their help soon enough with systems management, quirky issues from the past and a host of other things. From the rest of the sales teams perspective, you are taking away from their sales opportunities and they didn't want another sales person in there anyways. I am not saying this is a correct viewpoint, it's just their perspective. So pay your dues and keep your mouth shut and eyes and ears open.

Having a manager who is paid on individual metrics is a red flag. Managers should be paid on collective team goals, otherwise these kind of shenanigans would disrupt business constantly. The most likely scenario is that the previous manager moved to a new store, took another job, or whatever..they are gone. So next level management makes the lead sales rep the manager in title while they find a replacement or train him or have him on a probationary period or whatever.

That leaves a hole on the sales floor which is why they hired you. Now the lead sales guy/new manager is still responsible for hitting his quota and putting food on his table but also has to make sure the store runs smoothly and is doing double duty. He is paying his dues too!

One of the greatest skills you can learn in life is to STFU. Learn it now. You don't know anything, have been on the job a couple weeks. Kudos to you for coming here and not to management and making somebody have to take time out of their overworked job to hold your hand. Not that you shouldn't need handholding, but it's not in the budget.

Now take a look at the company. Are they a reputable organization with a brand name? Or are you concerned you won't get your direct deposit?

If it's a brand name then you'll be fine, the issues listed above don't get spoken about because it's just how things get done and you don't know this until you know it. If it's a shady, fly by night operation keep working and look for another job.

319Skew · 2021-03-01T14:49:15+00:00

Does the benefit in commission outweigh the benefits of employment?

Employers can fabricate any justification to terminate when you're on probation. So a confrontation can result in the loss of employment or making a shit list.

He is using law 7. You can use 3 and 11. Does he have a boss that you can approach? Would you be able to befriend this boss? Get past probation, become indispensable.

Once you're in good with him then you can law 13. Business is cut throat and a great way to master the 48 laws.

To answer your question, you adapt.

kdsflyfree · 2021-03-01T15:08:43+00:00

Taking a subordinates' livelihood is a dick move.

This said, ask yourself if he is a better closer than you. If so, he's doing you a favor. If not, he should be splitting commission on a team sale.

Is he taking your clients because he's a better closer or because he doesn't have prospects of his own? If the latter, here's how I'd handle it:

You need options. Fortunately, there are plenty available for successful salespeople. Prospect some other sales jobs that have equal or better compensation structure (there will be plenty out there).
Confront him. Not in an emotional way, but just a quiet, confident way. If he's taking everything for himself from clients you've warmed up, he needs to share.
Negotiate a better deal for yourself. If he balks, just calmly tell him you can't work under these circumstances.

Your leverage is that his quota appears to depend on you. If he's still being a dick, walk out and into one of your prospective positions. You can't afford to lose time, energy and money due to these lifesuckers.

Don_Draper27 · 2021-03-01T14:00:27+00:00

It's good that you're looking at things logically. I wonder if I tend to do this too much cause people may find out I'm really an AI.

But it doesn't sound healthy at all that all of y'all's are competing against each other. It's always better to work with someone vs against them. The problem isn't your manager, it's the structure (or lack there of).

If you've only been there a week then I'd say be more conscious of how things are operating. Maybe you can play the game as it is now and find a loophole that leans in your favor.

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ReadyBison6336 · 2021-03-01T15:11:26+00:00

You've already shown a lot more composure than most of us could have tbh. Although I agree to the 'stand your ground' argument, since this is a part time job for chump change, I think this is an amazing opportunity to learn.

Imo, I think you should do the opposite of what he might expect, tell him that he's a great salesman and you want to learn more from him, what tricks to employ, what are the loopholes in the system, how to manage people and the business, how to maintain the store and most importantly, how to compete.

Usually, everyone has something that they can teach. Also, you remove yourself from being a threat to him in his mind by being an apprentice.

amwfhunter · 2021-03-01T15:19:47+00:00

I think if you're new at the job you have to feel out everyone. Sometimes you don't know what is behind the scenes. I think you should use this experience to learn what to do and what not to do to prepare you for your career. This isn't so much a violation of outshining your master. Dude is just being a dick. If anything catching on your bosses' weakness will be important for your future or anyone for that matter. The purpose of this rule is really to not jeopardize yourself when stakes are high. I've been in both positions. Sometimes when you don't try to outdo your master, they may promote you higher or in my case often I purposely promote someone just to see how they will operate when given the opportunity. I.e. play kingmaker. But I can also destroy them when they become insubordinate.

I am semi retired not but owned a large stake (sold shares) in a medium sized corp when I was full time.

kclanton80 · 2021-03-01T16:27:19+00:00

I would wait a bit and see if the behavior continues. This could be a "breaking in the rookie" type thing, and might not happen again. Especially if you are still " in training".

I would do nothing for now and wait to see if the situation resolves itself. You might also find some more subtle ways to root out his behavior as you spend more time there.

Let confrontation, or going over his head be a late resort(for now). If he tries making this a monthly thing then you can raise an injection with him in a joking way....once rapport is built. " Stealing my sales again huh...with a grin and a laugh.

A way to say you notice.... without out right confrontation. Then slowly escalate as needed.

BajaGhia · 2021-03-02T02:13:53+00:00

If you don't mind me asking, what's the industry?

2021-03-01T13:22:32+00:00

In 1508 when it was just you and the lord of the kingdom - yes.

In 2021 when AI is most important, then Prajeet in India, and then you - no.

xxx69harambe69xxx · 2021-03-01T19:08:01+00:00

if you run into this, it means it's time to switch jobs.

You'll never avoid this problem unless you're working for yourself, but you can try to limit the time that you are exposed to it by switching jobs to one that more adequately suits your skills and goals

Title	Does "never out-shine your master" work
Author	amphix339
Upvotes	21
Comments	19
Date	March 1, 2021 11:25 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/lv6tql/does-never-out-shine-your-master-work/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/does-never-out-shine-your-master-work.1597434 https://theredarchive.com/post/1597434

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