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A lesson from Richard Feynman on buying drinks for women

lookatmeimskinny

August 8, 2010

27 upvotes

/r/seduction

http://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman-called-a-woman-worse-than-a-whore/

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Post Information

Title	A lesson from Richard Feynman on buying drinks for women
Author	lookatmeimskinny
Upvotes	27
Comments	21
Date	August 8, 2010 2:17 AM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/cymtj/a_lesson_from_richard_feynman_on_buying_drinks/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/a-lesson-from-richard-feynman-on-buying-drinks-for.1311233 https://theredarchive.com/post/1311233

Comments

[–]Partisan5417 1 point2 points3 points 16 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]lookatmeimskinny[S] 1 point2 points3 points 16 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]wutzu 1 point2 points3 points 16 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AFCGirl 1 point2 points3 points 16 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]restructure 1 point2 points3 points 16 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]restructure 1 point2 points3 points 16 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Callmeprescott-3 points 16 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]jippeenator 2 points3 points4 points 16 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lookatmeimskinny[S] 1 point2 points3 points 16 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A comment from the blog:

I read Surely You’re Joking for the first time recently, and that chapter stood out. However, I think that your anger is partially misplaced, and that you’ve misread the story in several places. Feynman did not call the bar girl a whore “because she did not behave in the way that he desired,” he called her that because – as he tells the story – she used implied promises of sex to obtain things, then wriggled out of the implied promises. Nor did he assume that “that if a man bought drinks for a woman, she owed him sex.” You can read that in to the story, sure, but it’s not actually stated or implied. The only really nasty part of the story is in Feynman’s internal monologue, (“worthless bitches,” etc) it’s an attitude he deliberately inculcated as an experiment, wasn’t comfortable with, and didn’t enjoy.

There’s no doubt that Feynman could be misogynistic in an airy, casual way, mostly when it came to sex. But his views on gender, race, and politics seem to me to be characterized mainly by overwhelming naïveté, not any sort of malice. Sure, his tacit complicity with 1950s gender relations was a problem, and it reflects poorly on this aspect of his character. But I don’t understand why you’ve chosen to “make an example” of him with a whole series of posts. You could have made essentially the same point, more effectively, by riffing off of Feynman’s stories with a little nuance and sympathy in addition to (partially justified) condemnation.

Or do you know something about Feynman that I don’t? He does mention some kind of a run-in with feminist demonstrators in Surely You’re Joking, but the way he tells it they were fringe types, and the whole thing was mostly a misunderstanding. If his account was self-serving, let me know how and why, and I’ll maybe reconsider my opinion of him.

[–]restructure 0 points1 point2 points 16 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Callmeprescott0 points 16 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]monolithdigital 0 points1 point2 points 16 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]alexryane 0 points1 point2 points 16 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah get over it. Women are bitches, men are basterds. No-one is perfect.

The main point is, men and women are both out for themselves. If you list the things men and women have and the things men and women want you can see this. For example:

What Women Have:

A look that men find attractive (very big attribute)
The ability to give men physical pleasure
Social value (you're the dude if you're with her)
Charm or charisma (to a certain extent this is important)

What Men Have:

A look that women find attractive
The ability to give women physical pleasure
Social value (women care slightly more about this than guys)
Physical wealth or power (be honest, guys don't give a fuck how rich a girl is)
Charm or charisma (slightly more important for guys)

Overall, men want sexual satisfaction from women and women want sexual satisfaction from men. But men also have these other attributes to explore - who wouldn't want free drinks, entrance, entertainment and to be seen with the guy that every other girl wants.

So what happens? Since girls are splitting their gains over several attributes, and guys are concentrating on pretty much one attribute, the 'market value' must naturally balance and therefore we derive at the commonly held stereotype: guys want sex, women want more.