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[–]Imperator_Pyra 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Not too late. I'm 33 and, in a sense, started again this year. Some guys started even later.
I suggest you read "Getting Laid In NYC" by Paul Janka - I always recommend it as a starting point, since it's short, sweet and pretty much covers all of the basics. In your case, you actually ARE in NYC, so it applies even more than it normally does.
So, read it, and then hit the streets and practice.
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Are you good now?
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Much better than I was, that's for sure. Regularly seeing two girls at the moment.
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
I've read it. There's nothing in there that isn't common knowledge. Only thing I learned is that one-minute interactions are apparently fine, but apparently only if you do flirting and banter, which is as bad and as hard to do as the Natural Lifestyles-style ten-minute deep conversation where you're her sensitive BFF for the day.
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Well, not sure if I'd call it "common knowledge", but it is a starting point, after all. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it, though, if I thought that flirting is hard.
And I'm not gonna lie, you saying that flirting and connecting with women is "bad" makes you sound like a bit of a psychopath, my friend.
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
I mean bad for the person that has to do it.
And I meant common knowledge for those of us who know that cold approach is even a thing. If you've seen a PUA youtube channel then there's nothing new in that guide other than what I said.
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Your explanation didn't really change or explain anything, my man.
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Men don't like having to flirt, it's something you do because girls require it.
https://youtu.be/y_bY1Jae0FE?t=505
"Additionally, Henningsen found that flirting for fun was more common in females than males"
[–]WikiTextBot 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Flirting
Flirting or coquetry is a social and sexual behavior involving spoken or written communication, as well as body language, by one person to another, either to suggest interest in a deeper relationship with the other person, or if done playfully, for amusement.
In most cultures, it is socially disapproved for a person to make explicit sexual advances in public, or in private to someone not romantically acquainted, but indirect or suggestive advances may at times be considered acceptable.Flirting usually involves speaking and behaving in a way that suggests a mildly greater intimacy than the actual relationship between the parties would justify, though within the rules of social etiquette, which generally disapproves of a direct expression of sexual interest in the given setting. This may be accomplished by communicating a sense of playfulness or irony. Double entendres (where one meaning is more formally appropriate, and another more suggestive) may be used.
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[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Nah, man, YOU don't like to flirt, and that's part of your problem, I'd say.
You can try to make it seem "normal" and tell yourself that everyone is like that, but how does that help you? It only helps you to convince yourself that "I'm alright the way I am and I don't need to change anything". But then your results with women won't change either.
Also, just the fact that we practice cold approach pickup puts us outside of the norm, so forget what's "normal" and what the average chode does. Unless you also want to get laid as much as the average chode, which is what, three women on average per lifetime? Tough odds, man.
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
So how do you learn to like flirting (or even, how to do it)?
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not sure what's not to like about talking to women, let alone flirting with them.
And yes, I know what you'll say, "men don't flirt for fun as much as women". That just means that men don't usually flirt with someone if they don't have any romantic or sexual interest in that person, NOT that men dislike flirting altogether.
Look up "How To Flirt With Girls" by Tom Torero, it contains specific examples of, well, how to flirt with girls.
[–]smorrow1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Not sure what's not to like about talking to women
The way they require you to do it.
[–]Pockyaf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just read that pdf.
Paul brags about banging just 100 at 30yo. He proudly says that he avg 20 a year in nyc lmao
[–]smoothmax 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Not too late you're in your in your prime.
There is no one perfect book or guide to game. Look up the recommended reading linked somewhere on the reddit sidebar. I recommend reading several books at minimum so you get an idea of the different types of game and find a style that suits you.
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I agree. This is more of an art than a science. Which is why I don't think I can learn.
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I know it might look hard for you and your STEM background, but that doesn’t mean you can try to challenge your mind into a world of uncertainty: when it comes to social psychology you need to take many unpredictable variables into account and deal with them. It’s not art, they are a different set of thoughts.
[–]smoothmax 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
It's a science in that you can break it down into a lot of individual tasks and work on them. Fitness, posture, clothes, grooming, meditation, affirmations, eye contact, banter and conversation, etc.
You don't practice being sociable and charming only on attractive women you practice every day with everyone you meet. Next thing you know you're bantering with a hot babe because you were bantering with someone else a second before and she's suddenly in front of you and it's like stepping from one moving sidewalk to another.
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
banter and conversation, etc.
I've never seen specific instruction on this.
You don't practice being sociable and charming only on attractive women you practice every day with everyone you meet.
No, that's weird. You have no reason to be talking to those people.
With the woman it's fine because the first thing out of your mouth was your reason for talking to her. How do you talk to random people you're not hitting on, though?
[–]smoothmax 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Examples from my life:
To a guy helping his elderly friend get in a car: "Hey cool Hawaiian shirt, you on vacation?"
To a barrista: "Is this your busy time?"
To a waitress after she recited the specials. "Thanks! You just read them off that sign didn't you."
I never thought I was all that shy or reclusive. But I have to admit it took me almost 2 years of studying game and practicing being a better conversationalist with my family and friends before I got to the point where I could be fearless and fun talking to strangers and attractive women.
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I don't think you could do that first one in the UK.
[–]smoothmax 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I haven't been to the UK in a few years, since before I learned game. But I know tons of Brits and I can't imagine any of them shriveling up, panicking or losing their shit if someone randomly bantered with them.
Is it really because in the UK there is a taboo or fear of talking to strangers in case you violate a class barrier? Like if a toff said "Cool shirt" to someone who turned out to be not so posh, would the response be "Fuck you Jack" ?
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
"SMV is most in your 30s" comes from having built up the skills in your 20s. Apart from the good-job thing it doesn't apply to him. And alot of us are in the same boat.
"Peak SMV in your 30's" is literally about as normie-advice as "just get a hobby and take a shower".
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Saying that men's SMV is the highest in their 30's isn't really advice, it's more of a statement of fact. And it has nothing to do with having a good job.
And you can't argue with "get a hobby and take a shower", come on now.
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Saying that men's SMV is the highest in their 30's isn't really advice, it's more of a statement of fact.
The fact is that if you're a man who's built for game then your SMV is the highest in your 30's (for the reason that I said).
It doesn't magically apply to everyone. If you haven't had those milestones and that practice then you're worse in your 30's (in relation to what you "should" be) than ever before.
Yes I can, it's the standard exampe of normie advice.
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
What exactly are you arguing? That if your SMV is so low that you're essentially undatable, then the fact that men's SMV is, in general, the highest in their 30's, automatically becomes invalid?
And... If something's "normie advice" (whatever that means) then it's wrong and you won't take care of your hygiene to spite normies? Bruh.
[–]smorrow 6 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
99% of people on the receiving end of
are taking showers regularly, that being a normal thing that people do. Just like everyone who was told to be themselves had been themselves their whole lives and it didn't get the same result as it did for the person with an attractive self.
And what I'm obviously arguing is that you don't get more attractive just by turning 30. You have to have been attractive already.
Obviously you won't get a girl just because you shower regularly. Doesn't make it bad advice.
"Just be yourself" is at the same time the best and the worst piece of advice out there. It's the worst, because it's usually given with no other explanation, and, well, what the fuck does that even mean? Is it implying that you're trying to be someone else all the time? What kind of unhelpful bullshit is this?
But it's also the best piece of advice if we take it as "be yourself TO THE MAX". Be shameless about who you are, about what your passions are, even if they're not exactly popular things, or if you listen to music that's not widely accepted socially, for example... and don't filter yourself when you speak, don't silence yourself because you think "eh, they probably won't care about what I have to say anyway". Do the things you want to do, but you're afraid for some reason - just do them anyway. Be the person you're supposed to be.
But there is no ONE piece of advice that is enough to follow to get good with girls, especially since we're all different and start with different problems to overcome. There are no magic bullets. No one thing will magically get you a girlfriend. That doesn't mean it's all bad advice, even if some of it seems very basic.
And yes, I do believe that we get more attractive as we turn 30. I have never had as much success with women as I have now that I'm over 30. But, again - that doesn't mean that, if you are unattractive for a number of reasons, that you can just stay as you are, not improve in any way, and magically become more attractive JUST because you got a year older.
And I'm not sure what you mean about the way you have to talk to women, that you mentioned in the other comment thread. Just yesterday, when we were exchanging comments here, I was on the train. Lost connection to the internet, so I put my phone down and opened my mouth to speak with the cute girl in my compartment: "is that a book you're reading?" - durr. We talked about everything, including THE WEATHER, with me talking like a stereotypical boomer, going "back in my days winters were REAL winters". I was accusing her of being a nerd and a psychopath mass murderer. When we were getting to our destination, I said: "I'm only here for the weekend, but... You're pretty, I'm pretty, what do you say we go out for drinks tomorrow, just stare at each other and see what happens?"... And we exchanged numbers. Yeah, you have to flirt with the girl a little, but otherwise you can say whatever, it seems. Just remove your filters and believe that what you have to say is good enough - by the virtue that it's YOU who's saying it alone.
I don't get how you can just assume everybody has a "passion". Do even most people, let alone everybody?
I can see "is that a book you're reading" (or Nelson Muntz's "so, you like stuff?") working in the same way as deliberately using really bad pick-up lines.
The
I was accusing her of being a nerd and a psychopath mass murderer
stuff is exactly what I mean by "the way" you have to talk... it's so fucking stupid, who the fuck talks like that?
Flirtation to me feels the same as being made to dance, or maybe having to quote a quote where the intonation matters, and is much more intonated than your natural speech.
The "drop your filters, say what you want" shit is typical normie advice too; if I'm saying what I want then I'm literally just saying "let's have sex, oh and tell me your name too because I'm 'supposed' to care about that". No "fun", no sexual tension, no game-playing. Just as some women are just zeroes on looks, some men are just zeroes on personality. Be-yourself (which your advice here is a version of) is really "be yourself and if you're a six or up then you might get something".
So you're saying that you have no passions, no personality, no looks, and no interest in connecting with other people?
Okay then.
Flirting is really campy, I suppose is what I've meant.
[–]justahappyidiot 6 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
I'm in my early 30s and while I'm not yet having threesomes with super models I do pretty well(pretty much strictly 8-10s that are smart and cool).
Humans have been around for 220,00 years. Up until about 10,000 years ago we lived as Hunter-gatherers in groups of 50-150 people. Not only was it really important to have a mate that you could really count on, but you also knew everyone intimately.
Our brains are still wired pretty much the same. And things that make you attractive to women also make you more likable to other guys (that aren't insecure).
The good news for modern men is that you can carry yourself like you're the leader of your tribe, even if you're just a software programmer or whatever. And women are wired to be attracted to how you carry yourself. You get to cheat, in a way.
The second part of it is the intimacy and connectedness. Ever really wanted to bang a coworker or another situation where you saw each other frequently and there was a level of comfort there? How much more attracted did that make her? Women are probably 100x more sensitive to it than we are. And what women are most deeply attracted to is a secure man with high self esteem.
Outer game is posture, body language, eye contact, what you say, how you say it, how you dress, etc. Outer game addresses appearing "alpha".
Inner game is really about the relationship you have with yourself and the world. Do you love yourself? Do you live your life in a way that minimizes not only your own suffering, but also that of those around you? Are you empathetic?
For outer game there's tons of resources on here. YouTube is also amazing. Todd V's stuff is awesome.
For inner game I recommend 12 Rules for Life, Happiness is an inside Job and Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Those three books
There's also understanding women and knowing how to give them great experiences. How to be a 3% Man should be the first book you read. Open Her by Karen Brody is great.
Learn how to use your fingers and mouth to take a woman on a journey through her soul and out the other side. Not only will this help with keeping girls around, but it also will give you confidence when you can look at a woman you just met and know that you could completely rock her world.
This is a journey man, but it's fun, exciting and REWARDING. Because not only will you get to have amazing sex with awesome women, but you'll also really grow as a person and lead a happier life.
Thanks for the long and thoughtful response, I really appreciate it. When did you start?
[–]justahappyidiot 6 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
There are so many variables that how long I've been doing game is irrelevant.
If you can consistently get Tinder dates with girls that you are attracted to, you're already doing the hard part.
And you theoretically have an endless stream of girls to practice with. I don't learn much from dates that go well. It's my failures that I've learned the most from. Also realize that sometimes you can do everything right and she still doesn't like you.
If you take Game somewhat seriously and really work on yourself, 3 months from now you'll be in a very different situation than you are now.
Read, watch YouTube videos... And try to relate what your learning to experiences you've had.
If you can get Tinder dates, I wouldn't put the energy into focusing on cold approaches. Get to the point you can nail first dates. Then start working on your cold approaches.
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I'm going on online dates and have been striking out a ton. This year I've had 20 or so first dates with attractive women and I slept with only one of them. I don't want to cold approach because that would probably be a waste of my time. But I don't know if I can improve because I've been doing online dating on and off for awhile and have not improved that much.
[–]justahappyidiot 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
But what have you been doing to get better?
We get feedback when we interact with other people. They laugh, they get bored, they feel awkward or don't like your energy. You should strive to use that feedback.
Example:
Girls don't like when you over text them. Why? Because it makes you seem needy. But the goal isn't to not over text, the goal is to become not needy.
Why don't women want a needy guy? Because a needy man is one that isn't comfortable with himself. People that aren't comfortable with themselves tend to communicate poorly, get offended easily, get upset easily, etc. There's actually scientific evidence that people with high self esteem are better at regulating their emotions.
Not only is it a pain in the ass to be with someone like that, but women are straight up wired to find men like that unattractive.
So there's probably some aspects of yourself you need to work on. But you're in good company: with very few exceptions everyone is sightly defective.
You can try to take this journey mostly on your own, but I think pretty much everyone would benefit from therapy. I know it helped me overcome a lot of negative beliefs and really led to me being who I am today. But most people don't want to go either because of the social stigma or they think everything is fine. But it's good just to have someone to talk about these really deep issues with. Scientifically most people aren't capable of thinking through something without verbally formulating their thoughts. It also taught me how to think differently
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I've been in therapy for many years and have had a difficult life on a personal level. It's helped me immensely and I'd be in a much much worse place if I didn't have it. But I stopped therapy a year ago because of the cost and I don't think it can help me more than it already has.
So this goes back to what I was saying regarding uncertainty as to whether or not I can improve from where I'm at now because - 1. Have been doing online dating for years, 2. Been in therapy for years and although it helped A LOT as I previously stated, it's expensive and I feel like I've plateaued for quite some time now.
Do you think getting a dating/pickup coach would be helpful here? It obviously has to be the right one, but I don't know what I can do other than what I'm already doing to get better.
[–]justahappyidiot 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I feel you on the having a hard life thing.
You've been online dating for years, but how much have you studied seduction?
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I think what I said in my original comment is even more applicable than it originally was, as far as books and where to focus.
I'll also ask this: do you have friends that you have fun with and can make laugh? Meaning, do you have friends that would describe you as fun?
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't really have any friends.
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[–]Imperator_Pyra 4 points5 points6 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]WikiTextBot 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Pockyaf 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]smoothmax 1 point2 points3 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]ModeratorCaptain_w00t 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]smoothmax 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]smoothmax 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]smoothmax 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Imperator_Pyra 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]smorrow1 point [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]justahappyidiot [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]justahappyidiot [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]justahappyidiot [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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[–]about_time8989 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link