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[–]wazke 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I was unhappy in an LTR for many years. Now I am single and have been so for over 5 years, and very happy to be so. I am growing much more as a person in this situation, being all around happier, and making most people around me happier. I may go into an LTR in the future, but only when I know that is what I really, really, really want to do with my life. I've already wasted too many years doing what was expected from me, and this never goes well for anyone involved. "Barely ok" is as far as you can get.
Do what makes you happy, or you will make those around you unhappy.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Marriage is literally a contract. It is a legal document. Even if it wasn't binding through law the whole idea of what a contract represents is contained in marriage.
My view is that you should go with integrity. Either make the sacrifice of sex with new women so that you can have a family or make the sacrifice of starting a family with this woman to have sex with new women. The choice isn't as important as the integrity you need to make it. If you try and have both you will probably end up with neither.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree absolutely. My gf knows all about this struggle I'm having, and she knows it is because I intend to honor whatever decision I make 100%. I am mostly hoping to hear if anyone has brilliant insight, or if others have gone through this and can say what helped them decide, or that it is perfectly normal and everyone goes through it or something.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Monogamy is essentially a construct of patriarchal society, that emerged when there was a surplus of goods and hence inheritance. During 90% of human existence, monogamy didn't exist, therefore humans are biologically predisposed to polyamory which would ensure highest fitness for the human population. This explains the huge divorce and cheating rate.
That being said if your partner believes in monogamy and you want to stay with her you have to play by her -and most of society's- rules. Honestly even if you catch yourself looking at other girls or having desires which is natural, you will be with someone you love so much and consider a great person (based on your post) and this might make you happier than not being with her. Also you should always look at what makes you happy presently and not look too much in the future. You love her and want to be with her today, but tomorrow you might change. So do what you feel that will make you happy about today and don't look too much ahead. That's my advice.
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 15 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
therefore humans are biologically predisposed to polyamory which would ensure highest fitness for the human population
the most important thing that feminism teaches: stop using the stupid "it's nature" point to prove a point for it will screw you up sooner or later in the long run.
and using that to "explain" the divorce and cheating rates? wow.
[–]frogma 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Millions of years of evolution tend to have a pretty profound effect on the way we "work." What is your explanation for the divorce and cheating rates? Unhappiness? Bad relationships? Both of those are great reasons, and they don't go against Biosucks's point.
I think you're talking about a different type of "it's nature" argument. Monogamy is a fairly recent idea in evolutionary history, and the fact that a man like hot_beef_jerky made this post supports what I said above (and the fact that I've been in the same situation plenty of times). If you have a better explanation though, I'd like to know what it is.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
a different type of "it's nature"
No. The "it's the nature" argument can be used by opposing positions where same shit comes out of different assholes. That is, it brings us to the same place: those who are said to go against nature are labeled as deviant. I don't give a shit whether those who do the labeling are poly or mono folk.
If you have a better explanation though
Sure: if it works for you and your partner(s), who gives a fuck whether poly was in our genes or in our culture or in our politics (let alone the issue that there is no way to distinguish what is "genes" and what is "culture")? Its practitioners have a legitimate claim against monogamy's normative hold on our and their lives.
As for the divorce&cheating aspect of this discussion... your approach is so absurd and outdated that there is nothing I am willing to add there.
[–]frogma 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Can you tell me how you would explain OP's feelings?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I have no idea what you are asking, but the OP doesn't need his/her feelings explained to him/her but to hear that others are experiencing what s/he is experiencing as well. We did, we are.
OP also needs advice from people in a similar position with more experience then him/her, hence my reference (elsewhere) to r/polyamory.
[–]frogma 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
That's cool, but I feel like
She is not willing to have an open relationship
but
I fear that eventually I will cheat on her.
I've been in that situation plenty of times, and outside of "boredom," I can't really explain why it happens, other than to say it's ACTUALLY IN OUR GENES and completely normal. You can look at some sort of history book or animals for good examples.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Okay, it's in your genes. Whatever floats your boat to calm your anxieties. But leave alone claims to my genes.
By the way, "normality" has nothing to do with nature. Something is normal when or if it complies with a group's or society's mainstream norms (especially those who have become, over time, ordinary and invisible). OP's feelings (just like mine and many others') are non-normal in this context. And this is not about genes but about politics, as you see. This (i.e. "normality") is one of the ways in which we practice violence to ourselves and others without anyone really noticing it...
As for the substantive question in your comment, whatever the cause might be, it is irrelevant. The problem is not "why" the OP feels the way s/he does. The problem is how to deal with the mismatch between the two partner's desires without too much hurt. And the only way I am seeing is for them to sit down and talk. That is, communication, communication, communication.
I'm guessing that they will either find a common ground (probably what's called a poly-mono relationship) or will breakup.
[–]YourCoConnect 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You are looking at it from more of a sociological view while other dude is looking at it from bio/evolution/chemical view. It is very difficult to specifically delineate where one does not influence the other.
[–]frogma 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
We agree on everything you just said. I was saying the exact same things.
OP's feelings are the same as yours and many others, and the same as mine. My argument was that his feelings are caused by nature and they happen to go against societal norms (which is what you just said, unless you believe this falls into some strange category outside of "nature vs nurture").
whatever the cause might be, it is irrelevant
I think basic psychology would disagree with that. Understand the cause, and you can probably figure out the answer pretty quickly.
My conclusion is also the same as yours. This argument only started because I guess you don't think nature can be given as a possible cause for his feelings? Nature is the reason I happen to be a white male. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say it's what also causes me to seek out multiple partners and never be truly satisfied with one (well, maybe some day ;-D).
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Nature is the reason I happen to be a white male.
Ehm, you're white because sometime around 15th century, dumb Europeans came across a bunch of people they wanted to exploit and kill, and legitimize these acts, and were very happy to reorganize everything they knew around skin pigments so that they could legitimize their absurd cruelty.
For a more complicated analysis, these should help.
"Nature" is like "God" in terms of causality: when you give it as an answer, the answer turns out to be empty at best, violent at worst...
[–]jamessnow 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't see how you can marry her. You are setting yourself and her up for heartbreak. If you are itching now, just think about how it will be after you know that you are trapped. Just ride it out and keep refusing and if you need to see other people tell her that's the way it is and take it or leave it. There are other smart, caring beautiful HB8's in the world. Lots of them. I read that book mentioned in another thread "How I found freedom in an unfree world". That sort of cemented my position.
[–]Nexism 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This sounds like /r/relationship_advice.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This sounds like what happens after years of self-delusion and serial pickup: confusion, inability to commit, and an ADD-like desire to have sex out of wedlock.
So alpha.
[–]Bercilak 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I hope that someday I'm in your position of abundance... however difficult this situation is to navigate, this is better problem to be having than getting no girls at all. :-P
She is everything I could have ever imagined from a partner. She's beautiful (HB8+), smart, caring, giving, has a great family, great values, and is madly in love with me. I love her very much, but I am always looking at other girls and itching to take them home with me. She is not willing to have an open relationship, and I fear that eventually I will cheat on her.
Tell her this? There's no reason to commit further to a relationship that can't foreseeably fulfill your sexual needs. On the other hand, if you two can work out an open relationship and then get married, fuckin' gravy! How to approach that definitely depends on what your girl's objection to an open relationship is. My girlfriend was hesitant about an open relationship and this book definitely helped her become comfortable with the idea, getting over insecurities and all that jazz.
We have discussed this (it's great the honest conversations you can have when you have a good relationship!) and that's part of why I know that an open relationship isn't acceptable to her as a solution. We've been trying to navigate our way through this for a few months already, and one of my good friends (er, ex-girlfriend) is poly and we all sat down and had a conversation to demystify things for her a bit.
That said, I am buying that book and we'll read through it together. I'm not rushing anything and am grateful for the lead!
[–]jakedebest 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I too have wondered about this. We, as humans, always want better things - often we are never satisfied. Which is evolutionary, the lazy, unwilling folk should,by nature be eradicated from our species.
Anyway, since I'm young and never been in love, I can't really tell if you are in love or not. I think 'love' means that you are completely satisfied with your partner and wouldn't want to cheat on her, although this is different, clearly.
My post hasn't provided any answers, but I'd suggest talking to your girl about this.
[–][deleted] 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
Not even close, sorry! :D
r/polyamory will be able to help better with this than the comments you are getting here...
[–]bangthemermaid 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think you might get some theoretical input from Johhny Soporno (www.seductivereasoning.com). He's way on the polyamorous side of things but his theory is quite enlightening. There are hours of free seminar on the website if you scroll down.
[–]spintheblackcircle 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"The man who knows when enough is enough will have always have enough."
[–]bemanijunkie 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I think learning to be content in any area of life is hard but I think it comes with maturity.
We always want hotter women, more money, more things. Hopefully you'll learn what truly matters to you eventually
[–]Goron40 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
At which point, he will want more of whatever that is.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Very true, and that's a lot of what I've certainly learned about myself in the last ten years or so. I've become dramatically happier as an individual in large part because I no longer expect some illusory ideal of myself or others or life in general. That's why this is bothering me so much -- I can see that by any objective standard, this is a very, very good relationship I have. It's only my lower, animal and emotional parts that are demanding more, now that i know I can have it.
[–]reph 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
IMO the only 100% satisfying way out of this mindset is to drive 50+ miles away, and GFTOW until you get it out of your system. If you want to go back to your LTR after that -- you will go back knowing it was your decision, not something you "had" to do because it was "right".
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, honestly I think about that. Telling her I need a month or two to go be with other women and see if that clears things up for me. I know that would agonize her as much as breaking up would.
[–]reph -4 points-3 points-2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Consider not telling her. "Business trip" or whatever. Sometimes that is the best move for both parties.
[–]Draxaan 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That is kind of fucked up though; if she truly loves him, then cheating on her isn't going to help the situation (well, her portion at least).
[–]Kancho_Ninja -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You know, just because I have a nice house, car, and career doesn't mean that I don't look at what the neighbors have and wonder what it'd be like to slip inside for a few hours.
Seriously, if you don't have the self control to respect someone you love, go back to college.
Do you job hop every year? Do you buy and sell houses on a regular basis? Do you lease a car and swap it every 3 years?
No?
If you can "settle" for a good career, a nice car, a wonderful home - why can't you "settle" for a HB8+ that is madly in love with you?
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[–]wazke 8 points9 points10 points (1 child) | Copy Link
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