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What phenomenon did you encounter in egalitarian countries which intrigue you?

Strikester101

December 15, 2019

13 upvotes

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/eb2jo7/what_phenomenon_did_you_encounter_in_egalitarian/

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Title	What phenomenon did you encounter in egalitarian countries which intrigue you?
Author	Strikester101
Upvotes	13
Comments	12
Date	December 15, 2019 6:29 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/eb2jo7/what_phenomenon_did_you_encounter_in_egalitarian/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-phenomenon-did-you-encounter-in-egalitarian.1064294 https://theredarchive.com/post/1064294

Comments

[–]ur_waifus_prolapse 17 points18 points19 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

The gender gap in many professions widens as egalitarian principles become more widely accepted. It makes sense once it's explained, I couldn't have predicted the result.
We're seeing an explosion of celibacy even as we're having all-time high sexual openness. Primarily for men, and to a lesser extent for women.
Extremely strained gender relations in the same demographics that are massively predisposed to egalitarianism. It isn't the hyper religious elderly in rural backwater villages that are going MGTOW, embracing the black pill, or enforcing laws against manspreading. It's young, well-educated people who actually value equality and other liberal principles who are burned out and cynical.
The drop of testosterone levels. We're fairly certain it's environmental, but can't pinpoint an exact cause. For societies so sensitive to unfairness on the demographic scale, we don't seem bothered by the male gender being hormonally genocided.
The explosive discovery that men desire idealised, monogamous love, commercialised in waifu culture. Laid against the simultaneous discovery that women desire violent, polygamous hypermasculinity, commercialised in violent pornography, rapey fiction, and Tinder. It's almost as if the traditionalist stereotypes about men's hedonism and women's romanticism are flipped upside down.

[–]LacklustreFriend 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's my short, 'hot' takes on all these issues. Obviously they're more complicated that this, but it's a summary.

The gender gap in many professions widens as egalitarian principles become more widely accepted.

The "Nordic Paradox" in differences in professions between genders is only a paradox if you believe in the blank and there are no biological/psychological differences between men and women. The solution to the "paradox" is simple - men and women have innate preferences and when given the freedom in egalitarian and well off societies they will follow those preferences into careers. In less well off and less gender equitable societies like Iran or Russia you actually get women outearning men in some STEM fields as there is a strong economic and social incentive.

We're seeing an explosion of celibacy even as we're having all-time high sexual openness.

What is actually conducive to sexual relations is having clear social rules of engagement. Traditional gender roles, while restrictive, did provide clear expectations and rules of engagement in sexual and romantic relationships. Nowdays, we have removed the rules but have not replaced them with anything. It's basically chaos in rules of engagement. Men are still expected to be intiators but are terrified of doing so because there is no clear rules and a consequences for a misstep are astronomical.

Extremely strained gender relations in the same demographics that are massively predisposed to egalitarianism

A very complex issue, but in a nutshell I think this is because egalitarianism was never actually achieved. Egalitarianism for only one group is egalitarianism for no group. Or to quote Warren Farrell, "when one sex wins, both sexes lose". These well educated people (mostly men) are aware of how men have been left behind, how it's negatively affecting society as a whole, and how orthodox movements (i.e. feminism) have failed. So they're looking for any and all alternatives, even destructive ones like redpillers and incels.

The drop of testosterone levels

The most appalling thing about this issue is that no one seems to care. There is pretty much no research into the issue, and the media isn't going to raise concern. Just one more victim of the empathy gap.

With such little data to go on, I think it's likely a combination of two causes: firstly, pollutants and chemicals, particularly in air and food (this effects things other than testosterone as well). Secondly, an increasingly lack of physical activity and healthy stresses on men's (and women's) body. Testosterone is linked to physical activity. An increasingly sedentary lifestyle (and decline in traditional masculine hobbies) seem to be disproportionately affecting men.

The explosive discovery that men desire idealised, monogamous love

More accurately, the rediscovery of men's love. (Though I don't fully agree with your assesment of hedonism in either gender is fair).The issue of men's love being forgotten specifically I think is very much the fault of feminism, which has demonized men and men's sexuality and love, since its inception. I sometimes think this is the greatest tragedy of all - the recognition of men's great capacity to love, and to love women most of all. To go a bit anecdotal, I sometimes wonder if those who demonize men have ever visited an art gallery of premodern art. Greco-Roman marble sculptures of the beauty of the female form. Renaissance paintings and sculptures of the Virgin Mary and Jesus capturing the great love between mother and son. Great monuments like the Taj Mahal built as testaments to a husband's undying love for his wife. Men's great love for women is plain to see for anyone willing to see. I think feminism has played the primary role in making people unwilling to see.

[–]Aaod 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ur_waifus_prolapse 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ClementineCarson 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]goodj1984 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]aussietoads 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ur_waifus_prolapse 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Brainstorming:

Perhaps both men and women like both in similar degrees, and this is a market correction of segments that were ignored and couldn't be monetised before cause of short-sightedness.

Perhaps they reflect changes in environment. The loneliness epidemic has hit men significantly harder than women, so they may fetishise what they lack: loving wife, stable marriage. The analogy breaks down for women, as it isn't very clear why they ought to fetishise violence and toxicity to offset their own loneliness.

Perhaps the explosion is entirely self-selected. Highly sensitive and idealistic men may be anti-correlated with romantic success, but their needs must be met somehow. Spinster women may also find themselves lonely as they age and can't sustain their lifestyle, and their needs must be met somehow as well. Insensitive men and monogamous women have no such problems.

Perhaps this is the endgame of evolutionary biases in a post-scarcity sexual environment. A woman always knows her child carries some of her genes. For the man it's less obvious. So men who aren't at the top of a hierarchy may have evolved an adaptation where absolute control over a woman (monogamy) is rewarded, outweighing the simpler strategy of just fucking everything. Women have no need for this adaptation, so they can fuck as many hot men as they fancy.

[–]Faulgor 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TotesMessenger 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link