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On the Sexual Assault of Men

Oncefa2

August 14, 2021
20 upvotes
/r/Male_Studies
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12119-021-09901-1
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Post Information
Title On the Sexual Assault of Men
Author

Oncefa2

Upvotes 20
Comments 14
Date August 14, 2021 1:05 PM UTC
(4 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/Male_Studies
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/Male_Studies/comments/p47o0x/on_the_sexual_assault_of_men/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/Male_Studies/on-the-sexual-assault-of-men.1216218
https://theredarchive.com/post/1216218
Top posts by Oncefa2

In 2017, men worked 56% of all hours and earned 56% of all income. Women worked 44% of all hours and earned 44% of all income.

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"If rape laws were gender neutral then men would falsely accuse women of rape" -- a discussion I had with a feminist.

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If feminists actually believed in the theory behind toxic masculinity, they would support the men's rights movement. MRAs are giving men a voice and a safe space to express themselves.

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I feel like there is an unwritten rule in society that men are expected to listen to their wives / girlfriends and be obedient to them. Nobody wants to talk about this though and some people even think it's misogynistic to bring it up.

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#MeToo failed Johnny Depp and proves that the woke movement is nothing but digital chivalry

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Most feminists are radical feminists by the literal dictionary definition of radical feminism: "the belief that society functions as a patriarchy in which men oppress women"

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Men do not seem like they are proud to be men. And this is detrimental to their mental health. We need to celebrate men instead of demonizing them.

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The idea that women are "bigger victims" than men is a harmful, antiquated gender norm that promotes toxic ideas in society

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Comments

[–]Oncefa2[S] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This paper was written by two mathematicians / statisticians and a philosopher of ethics who looked at previous research and data on sexual assault. And they came to the conclusion that men are raped (including by women) at essentially the same rate as the reverse. They also argue that hiding and minimizing this is an obvious ethical problem.

In particular, they analyzed the CDC NISVS data and came to the same conclusion that Time magazine, Stemple and Meyers (2014 & 2017), and men's activists have been saying now for 10 years: that the CDC has been carefully redefining female-on-male rape in a separate category ("made to penetrate") in order to hide the fact that their data very clearly shows that women rape men at equal rates that men rape women.

The CDC definitions for "rape" and "made to penetrate" are almost word-for-word identical except for the anatomical differences between men and women. So it shouldn't exactly take a philosopher of ethics to look at that to tell us that the numbers in the "made to penetrate" category represent people who have been raped. But that's basically what we're looking at here. So I applaud their efforts because honestly, some people are dense, and probably still won't like this argument very much. And it's frustrating that the CDC did this to begin with instead of just treating it as a gender neutral issue and calling both things what they are: rape.

One interesting finding in this paper that I haven't seen anywhere else is that if you account for the fact that 51% of the population is female, then on a per capita basis, male sexual assault isn't just roughly the same as female sexual assault. It's slightly higher.

Given that the population of the United States in 2010 was only 49.00% male, the per capita rate of rape was actually 4.37% higher for males than it was for females.

The paper also notes that the overall profile and harm associated with female-on-male rape is roughly equivalent as the reverse. The physical and psychological harm that male victims experience is the same that female victims experience. Male victims attempt to resist their attackers at the exact same rate as female victims (89% of the time). And female rapists use similar strategies at similar rates as male rapists. Including the use of violence and weapons (both male and female rapists use weapons 7% of the time). So overall, just about everything is the same between genders. The only thing that is different that I've ran across is that female attackers often threaten male victims with false allegations ("say anything and I'll tell everyone you're the rapist"). This finding wasn't included in the paper though, likely because it comes from UK research, and this paper is focused on North America.

Abstract:

Anyone who engages in sexual intercourse with someone who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol, unconscious, oblivious to their surroundings or not able to voice dissent can be charged with the crime of rape. No individual should be used, without their consent, for another person’s pleasure. The lack of informed consent makes rape unethical. Ethically the victim being male should be irrelevant. Yet male rape is rarely reported and frequently minimized, as will be shown by the 2010 CDC National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey as well as other sources in this paper which will show that male rape happens about as often as female rape, and possibly exceeds it. Evidence also shows that 80% of those who rape men are women. Reconsidering stereotypes of the rape of men is an important part of rethinking masculinity. Among these stereotypes is the assumption that male rape is rare, as well as assumptions about the experience of male rape victims. The goal of this paper is to show that male rape is a prevalent problem and that the victims endure the same emotional and psychological after-effects as female rape victims.

Full-text (courtesy of the authors):

https://link.springer.com/epdf/10.1007/s12119-021-09901-1

https://www.gwern.net/docs/sociology/2021-dimarco.pdf

Citation:

DiMarco, David, John Mizzoni, and Ryan Savitz. "On the Sexual Assault of Men." Sexuality & Culture (2021): 1-9.

[–]AleksandrNevsky 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Evidence also shows that 80% of those who rape men are women.

Gives me some very mixed feelings.

On the one hand: I'm not as alone as I thought.

On the other hand...I'm not as alone as I thought.

[–]FinallyReborn 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

This is a fairly good source to rip quotes from in debates, but hell they just reiterated everything Stemple has published in her studies, they don't even try to hide this, every sentence in the study is just "Stemple found", Stemple said...", not at all original. The sources they cite are hauled right out of Lara Stemple's work, also.

They also don't even take into account the NISVS 2011, 2012 and 2015, they all found fairly prominent results. The 2012 survey even showed almost double male victims of that of female victims (even before taking into account population demographic, which would make the percentage per capita even higher).

I am convinced I can create a more thorough and original piece of literature that explores male rape victimization and female perpetration better than any of these trained academics can, because honestly, none of them are doing a particularly good job at it, there are dozens of sources that have been scouring around that I have yet to see used in any of these bibliography types...

[–]Oncefa2[S] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah even the guy who originally posted this to r/science said "it's not very well written" at one point in the comments, which it really isn't.

I think the mathematicians and the ethicist kept going back and forwards without any real direction. Like they all had points they wanted to make. The mathematicians had their hard statistical analysis they wanted to do and show off in the paper, and then the ethicist had his points about ethics and philosophy he wanted to make at every turn.

On the flip side, replicability is important, and having more sources and articles talking about this and citing other sources helps things.

And as you said, it is easy to quote from. Stemple and Meyers did essentially find the same things, but they were a little more high brow about it, which goes over a lot of people's heads. Especially if they doubt the plain English research findings.

u/altaccountsixyaboi <--- looking at you, if you see this

No shade of course. Check out this source though if you happen to see this ping. I'm not trying to post this to r/unpopularfacts, but I feel like it meets all of the criteria and rules and everything. And is written in plain enough English that there shouldn't be any confusion about the source backing up the post title 😉.

[–]FinallyReborn 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

I hate that user with an absolute passion, he removes posts from r/UnpopularFacts for no other reason than that he doesn't like them and it doesn't fit his agenda, he is an absolute power mod who has gotten called out for it on a plethora of occasions.

I've tried to contact the other mods of r/UnpopularFacts to get him removed, and apparently they have also gotten continuous complaints about him by a various of other users yet they still don't want to remove him as a mod, they are hesitant because he has "done a lot for the subreddit".

A friend of mine has also continuously had bad experiences with him and has tried to contact the moderators to get him removed or limit his mod abilities, and got the same response as I did (you mod r/MenInMedia with the both of us, actually).

He has banned me from r/UnpopularFacts, unfortunately, by the looks of it he has also replied to my comment, apparently a study that is raising awareness for male rape victims is "going against feminism".

[–]Oncefa2[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What's kind of funny is I'm pretty sure the post that I made in that sub about men being raped by women "at near equal rates as the reverse" (or something along those lines) is what blew up their sub.

Before I made that post, the sub wasn't that popular. But then that post got crossposted everywhere. And I do mean everywhere. People made posts about my post and then crossposted those posts also. Feminists, MRAs, blue pills, kink subreddits, self help subs, curious bystanders... I mean I guess you could say it went viral. And all that traffic went back to their sub. But then I was treated like some kind of criminal because u/altaccountsixyaboi kept going back between like figure 1 and figure 2 in the 2017 stemple paper and couldn't figure out what the definitions for the terms in the descriptions of the graphs were.

[–]FinallyReborn 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I actually remember that post, ironically it is how I found the subreddit also, I didn't realize it was made by you. I actually also linked it in a couple of comments myself when I was relatively new to the MRM.

It also had a dozen sources in it and if he nit-picked a single source that wasn't even wrong, he just couldn't understand it, that says a lot about his agenda and modding abilities.

I have been active in r/facts recently and it is actually pretty good, I recommended it to you.

[–]sneakpeekbot 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Deadlocked02 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

r/MenInMedia

That seems like an interesting sub with a lot of potential. I hope it grows eventually.

[–]altaccountsixyaboi 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Based on a quick glance at the authors, their affiliations, and the journal in which it was published, u/Oncefa2 is correct that it meets our basic criteria for posting on r/unpopularfacts. The lack of recent data and original investigation is cause for concern. If someone makes a text post and includes a link to the full text of the paper, this would make a good fit once our rule against feminist posts is lifted!

[–]Oncefa2[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So it's "against feminism" to acknowledge that men can be sexually assaulted?

I mean it's good to know but it's kind of funny because doesn't that imply that feminism isn't a movement for equality? I mean think real hard about what you just said implies about what feminism is.

this would make a good fit once our rule against feminist posts is lifted

Not trying to get into a long discussion about this or anything. I'm really not here to argue, I just figured you might like to see this paper for your own personal curiosity. But I can't help but point that out lol.

[–]altaccountsixyaboi 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We saw a lot of spam and low-quality posts gaining a lot of upvotes when we allowed feminist posts, so we paused that.

[–]Oncefa2[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would probably just make it a rule about gender posts or "gender politics".

I like the idea of the rule being temporary though. I've seen other subs have rules where certain types of posts are allowed only on certain days of the week also (keep in mind that this spans closer to a 36 hour period given Reddit's international appeal).

It's a little more fair than just plain censoring stuff. Especially when people are clearly interested in that type of content.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent post

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