Introducing Gender and exploring Masculinity with middle-school students

goodfoobar · 2015-03-01T04:35:49+00:00

This video has been around for a number of years and has problems the are not easy to spot by many. At no time does it suggest that being male is a good thing and it treats all male behaviours as bad. It is based on the gender is a social construct theory and that with proper training we can train boys to not be boys. It is a step towards lets treat boys like they are actually girls and it will do no harm because gender behaviour is not innate.

Example quote from video. "We live in a culture that doesn't value what we feminized." The video is suppose to be about male behaviour and they are suggesting that males take on female behaviour as some kind of "fix".

IMO this video will create problems not solve them.

Claude_Reborn · 2015-03-01T03:53:14+00:00

The mask you live in is feminist bullshit masking as pro male.

Fuck that shit right off.

slosha · 2015-03-01T04:21:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

MRSPArchiver · 2015-03-01T01:32:06+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

iainmf · 2015-03-01T04:26:59+00:00

If I were to talk about masculinity I'd say something like this.

Men are important. Men overwhelmingly to do the dirty and dangerous work that keeps the infrastructure running. If men suddenly vanished for a month, garbage would start pilling up, your power would probably be shut off, there'd be problems with sewerage and water. You'd probably die of starvation because hardly any food would get transported from the farms to the store.
Masculine qualities are beneficial if they are used in the right places. There's plenty of examples of 'toxic masculinity' but that completely ignores the good aspects of those traits. Aggression and violence are good things for a person to have to protect their family from a home invasion. Stoicism is good for making it through tough times, or a crisis. You can deal with your emotions later.
There's no one way to 'be a man'. There is pressure to harden up, and pressure to be more sensitive. It's confusing. Both are valuable and you can find a good balance that works for you.

xynomaster · 2015-03-01T05:40:04+00:00

I disagree with the majority of the posters here. I think it's great to explain to boys that being traditionally masculine should be a choice, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be sensitive, show emotion, cry, run away from fights, any of that, and that these are healthy and normal things for any human being to need.

I've been looking forward to that documentary for a while now. There is a huge difference between saying "masculinity is bad" and saying "forced masculinity is bad", and it seems to me to be going after the latter.

But yeah, I think this is great:

My vague goals are to send a positive message about embracing the multiplicity of male gender expression and to call attention to masculine tropes that are harmful or restrictive.

There is a ton of traditional masculinity that is harmful and restrictive to boys, just like traditional femininity (ie stay home and watch the babies) is restrictive to girls, although it doesn't usually get anywhere near as much attention. You could talk about whether it's embarrassing to be a stay at home dad while your wife works, whether going into nursing is something to be ashamed of, why it might be considered shameful to lose to a girl and why there is nothing wrong with that, what exactly defines being a "coward" or "pussy" in the eyes of society and why society is so determined to ostracize boys who show vulnerability or weakness, why society creates a situation where young boys are encouraged to succeed in sports or in some cases violence but bullied and abused for doing well in school...

There are lots of things wrong with our current perception of masculinity, and I think trying to challenge them is important. Thanks for doing this :)

NWOslave · 2015-03-01T14:28:43+00:00

Or, schools could simply teach math, reading, music, science and so forth and dispense with all propaganda.

slosha · 2015-03-01T02:31:19+00:00

[permanently deleted]

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2015-03-01T01:42:28+00:00

It seems to me like "The Mask You Live In" has been coming next year for several years now, but the trailer is still good.

Can we get more information on the program? Will these programs be co-ed or one for boys one for girls?

If they are not co-ed, I would focus more on helping each individual develop a positive internal understanding of self, one that doesn't rely on sexual validation.

If they are co-ed, I would focus more on the history of gender roles and how they are interconnected interdependent divisions of labor that are no longer functional in post industrial western nations.

KrisK_lvin · 2015-03-01T08:09:04+00:00

I'm wondering if any of you have ideas for leading this program.

Yes, don't do it.

If the children in that school are anything like their British equivalents (and I've no reason to suspect they wouldn't be), then the goals of the course and especially that video seem offensively patronising.

In fact I'd go further than that, it is just this kind of nonsense that confirms children from such schools and social backgrounds that education is bullshit that has no benefits and no relevance to their lives whatsoever.

They are from majority low-income neighbourhoods I understand, yes?

Then the content of that video will be completely laughable. How are they expected to deal with the terrifying gang members they may have to walk past on a daily basis? How is talking about the the multiplicity of male gender expression going to keep them from getting humiliated, feeling fear etc.? You can't persuade a child of that social constructivist reality whose personal lived experience is radically at odds with that vision.

If by some miracle you get one of the kids say something positive about it, they'll just be parroting whatever they think you want to hear most.

send a positive message about embracing the multiplicity of male gender expression and to call attention to masculine tropes that are harmful or restrictive

I know I sound harsh, so this is not really the best way to persuade you of my point of view, but I went to a school like the one you describe and it was programs such as the one you outlined above that I found intolerable. Whether they say this to your face, say nothing at all, or give the appearance of understanding my bet is that these kids will see through the bullshit in that video in a second.

Get them to read selected passages from Ellison's 'Invisible Man' or in some ways even better Braithwaite's 'To Sir, With Love' - the idea of a highly qualified black teacher showing 'white trash' slum kids how to respect both themselves and each other ought to be sufficiently interesting to overcome the differences in time (the late 1950s) and place (London).

Title	Introducing Gender and exploring Masculinity with middle-school students
Author	slosha
Upvotes	3
Comments	29
Date	March 1, 2015 1:31 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2xiofg/introducing_gender_and_exploring_masculinity_with/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/introducing-gender-and-exploring-masculinity-with.986973 https://theredarchive.com/post/986973

Comments