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Here's The Powerful Letter The Stanford Victim Read To Her Attacker

squirtingispeeing

June 4, 2016
4 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/heres-the-powerful-letter-the-stanford-victim-read-to-her-ra?utm_term=.kbz5bLaDO#.amepLWRge
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Title Here's The Powerful Letter The Stanford Victim Read To Her Attacker
Author

squirtingispeeing

Upvotes 4
Comments 36
Date June 4, 2016 3:22 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4miqqz/heres_the_powerful_letter_the_stanford_victim/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/heres-the-powerful-letter-the-stanford-victim-read.948151
https://theredarchive.com/post/948151

Comments

[–]mikesteane 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Normally, I argue that:

  1. Sentences for sex offences are hugely discriminatory in that women get very light sentences (if they are charged at all) in situations where a man would be completely destroyed.

and 2. Sex offences are grossly over-rated and that we shouldn't celebrate it when a woman gets a sentence similar to what a man would have got just because this somehow represents equality.

However in this case we have real rape - stranger rape on an incapacitated victim - being dealt with by a derisory sentence. Justice has not been done for the victim.

[–]boringcarpets 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Archive link

[–]civilsaint 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

It is disturbing that he only got 6 months. This is a clear case of rape, not a he said, she said case, or a question of whether she consented then regretted it.

The extent of injuries and the fact that he left her behind a dumpster mean that he had no regard for her as a human being.

[–]omegaphallic 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit, yeah that should have netted 10 years minium. And yet some innocent guy gets a fuck load of prison time or throw out of university without trial, this guy gets, 6 months.

Not saying 6 month isn't brutal on people, but what he did was savage act of brutality.

I actually think this is actually a by product of rape culture hysteria, that feminists has so demeaned the word rape, that its not taken as seriously as it should because its dumped in with all kinds of consentual sex and minor shit like "eye rape".

Its like they're causing so much fear mongering about rape culture that they won't be happy until its a real thing.

I think in some ways Angry Harry saw this coming.

[–]squirtingispeeing[S] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I actually think this is actually a by product of rape culture hysteria, that feminists has so demeaned the word rape, that its not taken as seriously as it should because its dumped in with all kinds of consentual sex and minor shit like "eye rape".

Yeeeeeah..... Or he was just rich and well-connected.

[–]omegaphallic 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I will admit the Judge was an idiot, serve impact, like it doesn't have serve impact on everyone who goes to prison.

I wonder if this judge would have concidered the serve impact if this rapist was a black dude, from the hood I doubt it.

[–]squirtingispeeing[S] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah no shit he would have gotten a harsher sentence if he were poor and black. A poor black guy raping a young white girl -- they would have locked him up and thrown away the key.

[–]omegaphallic 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually I regret my statement, if I had access to the judges full history of judgements and say he personally judged black men harder then yes, I could say that, but instead I tarred him for what over judges have done, not his own record, which I don't have, so that was unfair of me and I apologize.

[–]omegaphallic 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that never hurts.

[–]civilsaint 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

Then he asked if he could finger me and I said yes. Most guys don’t ask, can I finger you? Usually there’s a natural progression of things, unfolding consensually, not a Q and A.

The victim makes the same case. This is fallout from the rape culture hysteria, and it pisses me off just as much as a false accusation.

Justice was not served.

[–]Mens-Advocate -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Wait a minute - if he asked to finger her and she answered yes, then he has committed no crime at all and the sentence is too harsh. (Yes, she may have been too drunk for the consent to be valid - but if drunkenness voids her consent, maybe it should also void his guilt for simply taking her at her word.)
Also, her comment exemplifies the manner in which bigots (e.g., feminists) put their targets in a position of damned-of-do-damned-if-don't: Affirmative consent more or less asserts men guilty if they haven't asked verbally and obtained a yes. But the victim here seems to object to his asking, making the same argument as anti-affirmative-consent: Usually, there is a natural, non-verbal, consensual progression. So which is it? Are men guilty if they ask? Or if they don't ask? Or are they always, guilty either way?

[–]ABC_Florida 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

He was caught having sex with an unconscious woman by two men. She woke up hours after the event.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_29705492/jury-finds-former-stanford-athlete-guilty-sex-assault?source=pkg

[–]Mens-Advocate -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

  1. He wasn't exactly having sex. He penetrated her with a finger and apparently dry-humped.
  2. It was not proved he knew her unconscious.
  3. He was drunk himself.

These circumstances may not be exculpatory, but they are certainly mitigating.

[–]ABC_Florida 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If being drunk not necessarily strips you from the ability to give consent, it does not strip you the responsibility of missing things. It goes both ways.

[–]civilsaint 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

She talks about the natural progression of things, and she explicitly left out asking permission as part of that natural progression.

The point is that even a victim of a brutal rape thinks that affirmative consent is nonsense. Her rapist tried to use affirmative consent against her by saying she just doesn't remember consenting.

In reality, consent is rarely questionable. There are a chain of events that lead up to consensual sex, and that chain almost never involves verbally asking.

This is just one more piece of evidence that affirmative action only facilitates rape in addition to false accusations.

[–]aznphenix 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This is just one more piece of evidence that affirmative action only facilitates rape in addition to false accusations.

I'm not sure how affirmative action is coming into play here - unless I'm missing something from the parent conversations.

[–]civilsaint 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I meant affirmative consent.

[–]Mens-Advocate -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh, I see - you're right - she is recapitulating Turner's argument that she consented.
But then, this remains an oath-on-oath case - his claiming that she consented before incapacitation, her claiming she doesn't remember.
That's a thin basis for conviction.

[–]civilsaint 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But in this case there is so much supporting evidence. Really, there is quite a lot of physical evidence here, as well as circumstantial (the Swedes, etc).

In this case I am comfortable with a conviction based on this level of evidence. Her story, the letter, her actions, they all mesh and seem truthful.

This exemplifies my argument that you can judge an accuser by her actions. Even in her lack of memory, a strong narrative arises backed up by a string of evidence. It just makes sense.

[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

What the fuck is "natural progression"?

Keep going until someone says stop? In that case, there was "natural progression" here because she didnt say stop, but we still consider it rape because she had 3x legal limit of alcohol in her.

[–]civilsaint 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

There is a natural progression leading up to sex that involves participation by both parties. What she was pointing out is that her rapist tried to claim he got verbal consent while she was too drunk to consent physically, i.e. with reciprocal actions.

This idea that consent has to be verbal was actually the defense used in this case. It's easy to lie about someone saying something, but much harder to lie about a person doing actions.

[–]Mens-Advocate 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I think Turner's claim is that she consented earlier, before incapacitation. What if he's telling the truth?

Also, she asserts consent is not her ostensible "yes" but rather physical participation. Doesn't that contradict much of "affirmative consent" as well as the convictions of many college men claiming, "She didn't explicitly say yes, but she got into bed naked and helped me put on a condom"?

[–]civilsaint 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think this is a rebuke of affirmative consent, coming from a rape victim. He would have to prove that she was visibly in a state to consent when she was passed out half naked behind a dumpster.

Her words in this case do not matter. He was coherent, she wasn't. This case can't be decided on what she said or didn't say, but rather the surrounding physical evidence and third party testimony about the course of events that night.

Feminists like to complain about a victim being asked about her activity that night, but in this case, it is the defendant's actions that night that put his motives in play.

There are several angles to this outcome that show that what feminists are fighting for in handling rape cases is working against rape victims finding justice.

[–]Mens-Advocate 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

He was coherent, she wasn't.

She was passed out; he wasn't. But I saw in one article that he was also at double the legal drunken limit. Is that, and the claimed consent, to be irrelevant?

There are several angles to this outcome that show that what feminists are fighting for in handling rape cases is working against rape victims finding justice.

You've put your finger on the issue.

[–]civilsaint 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think legal limit should be used for sex consent. But the limit should be somewhere between that and the point where you'd pass out under a dumpster.

[–]Mens-Advocate 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So why is it irrelevant that he had 2x the legal limit of alcohol in him?

[–]mwobuddy 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because if you perpetrate a crime you're responsible even though your mind is compromised. If you are victim of a crime it is due to your mind being compromised.

It seems unfair, but its the only way the law can work while also allowing mind altering drugs to be used by the population. A sticking point is when it is never considered that a woman can rape a drunk man (he mustve wanted it).

[–]Consilio_et_Animis 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I just do not understand this crazy light sentence. When I first read about this case, before the trial, I thought well here is clearly a real rape with witnesses and everything. In fact, I recall even feeling a pang of sorrow for the rapist knowing the long sentance he was due.

[–]Mens-Advocate 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The sentence may be appropriate. Q.V. my comment here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4mgkoe/stanford_swimmer_who_raped_unconscious_woman_gets/d3vxvbj
Edit: CivilSaint noticed a remarkable admission in the midst of her logorrhea: She admitted Turner had earlier asked her permission to insert a finger, and she said yes. So, Turner has grounds for claiming complete innocence. The issue is thus not rape but rather a further extension of feminist law: Does later drunkenness negate earlier, explicit, affirmative consent? https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4miqqz/heres_the_powerful_letter_the_stanford_victim/d3vynts

[–]andejoh 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Now I would expect people to question why this is a men's rights issue. The SJWs need to get off the sub if they aren't concerned about men's rights. I'm not using the preferred term cry bully because it's not wrong. The sentence is too lenient. It's just not something encompassed by this sub IMO. He just got sentenced to what a woman would have been sentenced to. That's injustice not inequality.

[–]ABC_Florida -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is here for

  • rubbing it under male noses

  • get proof for the rape culture myth, by finding people who condone rape in the comments

But the truth is that even if someone tries to paint a picture that it was "only" drunken consensual sex, he gets downvoted to hell, and he gets debated.

These posts are here, so we as users can create a bad PR for MRM, by our assumed denial, and assumed rape apology.

If you want to prove to OP what the difference is between this sub, and mainstream society, find a news article where a female teacher had sex with a boy, and got off scot free. Then post it in /r/Feminism and screenshot the bans and comment removals you get! Ask the mods why your submission was removed, and screenshot that too. You don't even need to go to that sub, try /r/TwoXChromosomes! I can assure you, you will find behavior in those subs, which is more close to a rape culture, than any behavior in /r/MensRights.

[–]Sasha_ -5 points-4 points-3 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Did anyone actually manage to get to the end of that 'letter'? It just went on-and-on-and-on, and in fact I found the whole think very typical of young American women, who really do over-share. I dated a Yank girl once and, by God, she could go on-and-on and it was almost as though she had nothing stopping her frame sharing really personal details at great length.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It's a victim impact statement you mouth breathing shitstain

[–]Sasha_ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's an example of how women, particularly American women, can blather-on at boring and excruciating length about trivial nonsence. That whole 'statement' could be summed-up as: "Got drunk, got fingered, now embarrassed."

I'm amazed he got found guilty - but then the jury may have consisted of gullible simpletons like you.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Hahaha fuck right on off psycho. She was unconscious and he has been convicted

[–]Sasha_ -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

'Unconscious ' is when you've been knocked off your bike by a bus. The phrase you're looking for is 'pissed as a rat'.

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