Benefits of circumcision outweigh risks, U.S. pediatrics group says | Reuters

[–]rottingchrist 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]oneiorosgrip 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]rottingchrist 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it's just about Judaism... there are more proponents of the procedure than would be accounted for by religion.

I wasn't suggesting that religion was directly responsible. But that any culture has some of its ethos shaped by religion. And since Christianity (the dominant religion in the US) derives so much from Judaism, circumcision is not seen as particularly disturbing.

and a political interest related to reserving the concept of body autonomy for women. Feminist advocates go apeshit if you point out that boys have an equal right to body autonomy to that of girls.

Case in point. They just lack all ability to empathize with any man or boy.

It is likely that feminist organizations have put pressure on the AAP to change its stance for the sake of maintaining feminism's upper hand in the arena of human rights.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. As far-fetched as it sounds.

[–]oneiorosgrip 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

since Christianity (the dominant religion in the US) derives so much from Judaism, circumcision is not seen as particularly disturbing.

Very good point. Makes it hard to argue, too, because people who don't know that the Jewish community is not united on a stance regarding circumcision will fall back on allegations of antisemitism as an argument.

They just lack all ability to empathize with any man or boy.

Case in Point: Jezebel's article dismisses the drawbacks of male circumcision, claiming that complaints are "just another way of blaming your mommy."

And here on reddit, feminist commenters will go to great lengths to compare the more extreme versions of female circumcision to the simplest versions of male circumcision (de-emphasizing the importance by calling the foreskin a "little flap of skin" while correctly naming all parts of the female anatomy) in order to claim "superior victim status..." as seen in the feminist response to this post.

[–]rottingchrist 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]oneiorosgrip 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]iheartbakon 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MaunaLoona17 points 13 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MaunaLoona9 points 13 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]oneiorosgrip 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]roharareddit 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently the website is having technical issues that prevent comments on the article from posting. Here is mine:

This is not an issue that can be whisked away by a recommendation from a trade association who's members benefit financially directly from the compliance of their recommendations.

No.

Millions of lives are at stake in Sub Saharan Africa right now where debunked studies regarding the link between male circumcision and the propensity for HIV infection were carried out by largely disqualified people who had both legal and financial conflicts of interests.

People are watching this and sooner or later the truth will come out.

Either it will come out by right thinking and responsible people coming to their senses and stopping this barbaric program or it will come by the mounting evidence in the form dead people who would have otherwise lived if they had not believed in these lies.

[+]Busangod -12 points-11 points-10 points 13 years ago (44 children) | Copy Link

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[+]Busangod -11 points-10 points-9 points 13 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago* (35 children) | Copy Link

[+]Busangod -7 points-6 points-5 points 13 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Busangod 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ALTSuzzxingcoh 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Busangod -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

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[+]Busangod -7 points-6 points-5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Busangod -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ALTSuzzxingcoh 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Busangod -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

it's right because it's my son and there is no clear evidence that i've seen to indicate that the risks outweigh the benefits. That's it. It's not about the law at all. The only kid you have to worry about is your own. You raise your kid the best u can, and i'll do the same.

Please don't speak to me like i'm the irrational one. I've waited for counter argument, and all I've heard is that I don't have the right. Well, i do have the right, and if i feel it's healthier to do it then i have the responsibility. I've written about 15 replies in the past hour. I've been very happy with the majority of your ideas and opinions, but no one has suggested a single piece of evidence that couldn't be written off as conjecture.

If I'm wrong, convince me. Don't just imply that I'm too dumb or lazy to understand. I'm not. I take this stuff seriously. I'm not sure that I'm right, that's why I'm here. However, if you are sure that you're right, but can't posit up a justifiable reason then you might want to rethink your stance.

[–]ALTSuzzxingcoh 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]loose-dendrite 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]loose-dendrite 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Busangod -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]loose-dendrite 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Busangod -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Busangod -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I've pretty much lost interest in this thread. I have never ever encountered such small minded people in my life. I'm going to reply to you only because your retort is so devoid of any intelligence or rational thought that I feel like I'd be doing you a diservice if I didn't.

The thing about my sinuses is what is known as an analogy. Look it up. Basically it's a way of making a point by citing a separate point which the reader can hopefully draw a parallel to. I didn't mention mucus membrane. I didn't mention anything specific. The only point I made, and there is where the "analogy" comes into play is that I currently suffer from allergies. If there was a thing that a doctor could have removed from me as an infant which would have reduced or removed the likelihood that I would have allergies as an adult, I would appreciate that having been done. This comment is analogous to previous points that I tried to make, that I am grateful for having been cut because I feel it has provided me a better adult life. It's my body and I'm 100% grateful that as a baby I was cut.

I have no idea what point you were trying to make with the Bertrand Rusel quote. I know quoting people can make you sound smart, but you made absolutely no sense.

I don't want to argue with you people anymore. Enjoy your closed minds. Really.

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The thing about my sinuses is what is known as an analogy. Look it up. Basically it's a way of making a point by citing a separate point which the reader can hopefully draw a parallel to. I didn't mention mucus membrane. I didn't mention anything specifi

You brought up allergies and sinuses, which means dealing with mucous membranes.

If there was a thing that a doctor could have removed from me as an infant which would have reduced or removed the likelihood that I would have allergies as an adult, I would appreciate that having been done.

Allergies are an immune response.

You're talking about removing something sometimes inconvenient despite its overall function.

This comment is analogous to previous points that I tried to make, that I am grateful for having been cut because I feel it has provided me a better adult life. It's my body and I'm 100% grateful that as a baby I was cut.

How can you know that if you don't remember what it's like having a foreskin?

I have no idea what point you were trying to make with the Bertrand Rusel quote. I know quoting people can make you sound smart, but you made absolutely no sense.

You're basing your conclusion on what you think is the best choice, but you're not considering the whole picture nor the bodily autonomy the infant.

If the best choice is based on reducing chance of infection, the studies showing that are overstated and sometimes outright flawed. It's also a rather silly argument since removing any body part reduces the chance of complications with that body part, so by that logic we should just remove anything that has potential complications, which would be everything.

I don't want to argue with you people anymore. Enjoy your closed minds. Really.

Disagreeing with someone doesn't make them close-minded.

[–]Busangod -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's not that I've been disagreed with, I've just been told I'm wrong. That's it. I came into this thread hoping to find a solid counter argument, a reason for me to reconsider my beliefs but I'll i found was a bunch of people telling me that I'm a bad person. While I'm willing to let you think I'm a bad person, that's your right. It is absolutely inane argument. In fact, it's a non argument.

I tried to push the talk out of the gutter by pointing out things like vaccinations. There are whole groups of people that believe vaccinating children leads all sorts of potential ills. Those people, by your logic, could argue that I don't have the right to vaccinate my child because it could possibly (less than 1:10000) have an ill effect. They and you refuse to acknowledge the positive effects that these procedures offer

Instead of discussing what exactly parental rights are or should be, all I hear is "you're gonna cut off your kid's dick, asshole." This subreddit has made me want to stay away from the men's rights movement.

Here's my argument. I'm making it one last time. I'm going to try to write it in very plain English so that there is little confusion about my thoughts/intents:

I was cut. I, personally, am grateful that it was done. I'm grateful that it was done when I was a baby because I doubt I could (at 30) be strong enough to have it done, and at 16 I certainly didn't have the balls.

I believe that the health benefits, as small as they are are real. I do not believe that not being cut is beneficial in any significant way.

If i have a son, I will have him circumcised. I believe it is a healthier choice for him in the same way I believe vaccinations are a healthier choice. I'm not saying being cut is as beneficial as vaccinating, but I do believe it is better.

Just as you pointed out, if you were cut as a baby you dont' remember having a foreskin. You dont' remember the pain. It's a non issue for me, and it should be for any rational person.

It's my body, my choice. My kid, my choice. Live your own lives. Stop trying to dictate policy on strangers.

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I tried to push the talk out of the gutter by pointing out things like vaccinations. There are whole groups of people that believe vaccinating children leads all sorts of potential ills. Those people, by your logic, could argue that I don't have the right to vaccinate my child because it could possibly (less than 1:10000) have an ill effect. They and you refuse to acknowledge the positive effects that these procedures offer

The negative aspects of circumcision outweigh the positive; the positive aspects of vaccination greatly outweigh the negative. That's not a proper comparison.

I believe that the health benefits, as small as they are are real. I do not believe that not being cut is beneficial in any significant way.

The foreskin has 20,000 nerve endings, versus the clitoris at 8000 and the glans of the penis at 4000. Circumcision also correlates with premature ejaculation and impotence.

It's my body, my choice. My kid, my choice. Live your own lives. Stop trying to dictate policy on strangers.

So are you saying that FGM should also be allowed because it's "their kid, their choice"?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]Busangod -9 points-8 points-7 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]builtbro 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I honestly can't tell if you're just a troll or merely a braying halfwit, but the fact that you claim to find it "strange" that men's rights advocates are trying to take away what you consider as your "right" to grossly violate the bodily integrity of your children indicates to me that you have either not spent more than a few seconds seriously contemplating the ethical implications surrounding cosmetic infant circumcision, or you are willfully blind to the matter as a consequence of unwillingness to face the issue honestly.

This isn't about taking away your imagined "right" to mutilate your infant's dick. It's about guaranteeing HIS RIGHT to do what HE wishes with his own body when it comes to serious and irreversible modifications to his own penis. Now take this quarter, go downtown, and buy yourself a fuckin' clue.

[+]Busangod -6 points-5 points-4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]builtbro 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Benefits of circumcision outweigh risks, U.S. pediatrics group says \| Reuters
Author	ObscureSaint
Upvotes	36
Comments	47
Date	August 27, 2012 4:44 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/yw0wn/benefits_of_circumcision_outweigh_risks_us/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/benefits-of-circumcision-outweigh-risks-us.1014923 https://theredarchive.com/post/1014923

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