Guys, lets not forget that privilege is real.

thehumungus · 2014-03-12T17:46:16+00:00

I don't disagree that some classes of people have both advantages and disadvantages as compared to other classes of people.

I take issue with the word 'privilege'. The word has a derisive connotation to it - as though the person enjoying the benefit did not earn or does not deserve it.

You are not 'privileged' because the next state governor probably won't rescind your right to marry. Non-black aren't "privileged" because cabs always stop for them. These should be treated as natural states of justice. The 'under-privileged' you describe are being wronged. The blame lies with those who would deprive gays and blacks of being treated fairly, not for the straight and whites who don't get mistreated.

But yes, you're right, no one should be about "oppression olympics". I'd like to believe that being an MRA isn't about competing with feminism. It's about showing how men also suffer gender oppression, but that it is too often ignored by our society, culture, and media.

jugglingisretarded · 2014-03-12T17:55:55+00:00

The problem is that people only care about male privilege and try to shut down any discussion of female privilege.

What MRAs want is healthy discussion of both. It is almost exclusively them who start the oppression olympics.

Lonemango · 2014-03-12T18:10:53+00:00

Interestingly the notion of privilege, as used by most people I have seen, is inherently part of the oppression Olympics. By definition, If you are in the "privileged classes" you are inherently less oppressed, regardless of your level of income or education or anything else. Reading many social justice warrior types, it seems obvious they all think oppression Olympics is bad, as long as you realize that white cis men have it better than everyone else no matter what. That is absurd.

I for one think the concept of privilege, in the sense that we all have different experiences and that sometimes we can't fathom someone else's, is valid and worth discussing. Such as the ones you mentioned, but it goes both ways. Lesbians have no idea what its like to be a straight man.

Then you have the notion that less privileged people should be listened to more, that will inherently cause more oppression Olympics. If how much your opinion matters is tied to how "oppressed" you are perceived to be, people will seek to appear more oppressed. That is human nature.

Furthermore, Our issue with feminists doesn't come from them fighting for women's rights, it comes from them fighting against men's, or asking for special privileges. Most here I think agree that women should be able to vote, and have abortions, etc.. I have never seen any thread complaining about women demanding rights that men have. Have you?

rg57 · 2014-03-12T19:53:29+00:00

Of course privilege is real. It's an obvious consequence of bigotry.

What bothers me is that by focusing on privilege, speakers usually intend to shut other people down on the very same bases that they claim should not be used to discriminate.

So I try not to use that word. It's one of those political dog-whistles.

"gay men can't get married in many places, but they can hail a cab" Your prejudice is showing. (gay black men: Michael Sam, Jason Collins, Don Lemon, etc)

But since you bring up the comparison, black leaders of Uganda, Gambia, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Jamaica, and Nigeria (among others) have made life hell for gay men with punishments ranging from 7 years in prison, to death. Gay people don't even run a country, much less a hellhouse like any of those places.

As for feminism vs men's rights, it's my position that neither of these are workable ideas in the long term. We must work toward a gender egalitarian movement, where dogma gives way to evidence, and all genders (not just male and female) are treated with equal concern and respect.

JCurry2 · 2014-03-12T19:59:21+00:00

I think this is a really important point to make. This sub gets really upset (and understandibly so) when some feminists say that men are never victims. We wouldn't want to be on the same side of ignorance by stating that there aren't areas of society where it is beneficial being a man.

double-happiness · 2014-03-12T20:00:18+00:00

It's not a privilege for you to be able to get married, it's a right that gay people are denied.

BlindPelican · 2014-03-12T20:15:39+00:00

In what way is being treated as a capable person with rights and liberties considered a privilege? That's the expected norm not a special exception or privilege.

Those who would use the term "privilege" to point to someone that society treats correctly in some manner do themselves no good. It shifts the focus from the problem (why they aren't being treated properly) to a potential ally who happens to have normal status.

So, feel no guilt for being treated in the way you deserve to be. Rather, appreciate and empathize with those that are not treated in this manner and work to help raise them up in status.

lost_garden_gnome · 2014-03-12T19:23:57+00:00

Yes, there are privileges, and costs, and responsibilities, and the list goes on. Life is a highly faceted concept that can be discussed in a limited manner, but one should understand the boundaries on a limited discussion.

2014-03-12T20:29:37+00:00

Can you define X privilege? Is it a property of the set of all people who are X or of each individual person that is X?
How would one hypothetically disprove that X privilege exists?

rightsbot · 2014-03-12T17:36:16+00:00

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seenloitering · 2014-03-12T18:14:44+00:00

"Trying to compare the problems and decide 'who has it worse' is pretty pointless unless you just want to compete in the victim Olympics to determine who 'wins' and gets the biggest pity party."

Or unless problems need to be prioritized because there are limited resources.

thehumungus · 2014-03-12T19:12:54+00:00

That is a good question.

The answer is easy: Straight privilege exists! Male privilege doesn't exist.

It is true, as a straight person you have some privileges and gay persons have not.

But there is no male privilege.

When you talk with feminists and they want to explain privilege to you, they have to resort to straight privilege or white privilege. Why? Because they are real.

So always keep in mind when talking to feminists. Tell them that yes, straight privilege is real, but male privilege is not.

Title	Guys, lets not forget that privilege is real.
Author	thehumungus
Upvotes	0
Comments	25
Date	March 12, 2014 5:35 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/208tsi/guys_lets_not_forget_that_privilege_is_real/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/guys-lets-not-forget-that-privilege-is-real.1002836 https://theredarchive.com/post/1002836

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