Kindly indulge me in regards to some of my beliefs. My guy friends think I'm a disrespectful a-hole and I will never go anywhere in life if I express them publicly.

2012-12-31T07:48:04+00:00

If a girl hits a man, she should expect to be hit back.

I'm more of the 'nobody should hit anybody, ever' type.

If a girl can joke about my big nose, I'm allowed to make fun of her meaty calves.

Similarly, denigrating a person for their appearance is always wrong.

Don't flirt if you're not interested in sex.

Flirting can be fun on its own, without the expectation of any sort of 'obligation' to provide sex.

I will not lower the bar for you in sports if you choose to play with men instead of women.

I think things can be sporting either way. If the point is to have fun, then have fun. What does it matter in that case where 'the bar' is set?

Crying is a cowardly way of winning an argument.

Okay.

If you're dressed like a whore, you will be treated like a whore.

What do 'whores' dress like? This just seems like an excuse to denigrate women you feel dress 'immodestly.' Which I find pretty gross, but if it makes you feel better, I certainly can't stop you.

Edit: These are just my opinions, of course, and as such certainly don't invalidate your own feelings. Just sharing.

RadiumGirl · 2012-12-31T08:10:03+00:00

If a girl hits a man, she should expect to be hit back.

I don't think violence is ever the answer. Hit back to defend yourself - not as punishment.

If a girl can joke about my big nose, I'm allowed to make fun of her meaty calves.

Or, walk away. I don't think it's ever OK to pick on someone's physical appearance. Tit for tat is childish - don't lower yourself. Ignore her and you will come off looking like the better person.

Don't flirt if you're not interested in sex.

Disagree. Flirting =/= sex. Flirting is part of the 'courting ritual' - it expresses interest in someone that is not necessarily sexual yet. It may head that way - but it's certainly not a given.

I will not lower the bar for you in sports if you choose to play with men instead of women.

Seems reasonable.

Crying is a cowardly way of winning an argument.

No argument here.

If you're dressed like a whore, you will be treated like a whore.

This makes you sound like a disrespectful a-hole. What constitutes 'dressing like a whore'? It's all a matter of opinion and differs between people.

I don't think it's ever appropriate to treat someone like a 'whore'. In fact, I'm not even sure what 'treating someone like a whore' consists of. Offering them money in exchange for sex? Speaking disrespectfully to them? Spitting on them?

Every day I see people dressed in a manner I wouldn't dress - that doesn't mean I should treat them in anything less than a respectful manner.

Joshuages · 2012-12-31T08:44:06+00:00

This isn't really the subreddit for this. Head on over to /r/rage and see what they think. I really don't think elementary discussions like this are overly valuable here, but that's just me.

In my country, you're able to use proportionate force to defend yourself and you have a duty to retreat. If you get slapped buy a girl and you punch her and break her nose or teeth, you are going to be charged with aggravated assault.

Relationships with women aren't adversarial. I doubt you're making many friends with them with this attitude.

DerpaNerb · 2012-12-31T10:45:59+00:00

If a girl hits a man, she should expect to be hit back

IF a guy hits me, I don't think I'd punch him back unless I thought he was going to continue doing it... aka self defense. Revenge is not self defense.

With anything, use reasonable force. If you got 100lbs on a person, you don't need to deck them... this is regardless of their gender.

If a girl can joke about my big nose, I'm allowed to make fun of her meaty calves.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Getting "revenge" doesn't do anything. Now if this is just playful joking both ways, then sure, go for it. But if you really don't appreciate being the butt of some jokes, then let it be known instead of trying to get them back.

Don't flirt if you're not interested in sex.

I think you are retarded for this one. Someone can flirt and have a possible interest in a relationship, and not want to have sex immediately.

I will not lower the bar for you in sports if you choose to play with men instead of women.

Agreed... but again, reasonable force. You should never be out to intentionally hurt anyone, regardless of gender, even though you are "allowed" to according to the game's rules... that's just dirty play.

Crying is a cowardly way of winning an argument.

IMO people who think that has anything to do with winning an argument are stupid. So yeah, you are right.

If you're dressed like a whore, you will be treated like a whore.

And how is "dressed like a whore"... and how do you treat whores?

Honestly, for half of these, I'm inclined to agree with your friends... but you're welcome to clarify.

2012-12-31T12:23:23+00:00

Don't flirt if you're not interested in sex.

If you're dressed like a whore, you will be treated like a whore.

Oh, for fucks sake. How about we flip these?

Don't talk to women if you're looking for sex.

If you're dressed like you've got money, you will be expected to pay for everything.

See how utterly bullshit that is?

Cookie · 2012-12-31T10:44:13+00:00

If a girl hits a man, she should expect to be hit back.

I don't mind mutual play-hitting. If it's a real attack, then she should be arrested. I do agree that allowing women to play-hit men but insisting that men play-hitting women is never acceptable is ridiculous, as is minimizing the seriousness of real attacks if it's women attacking men.

If a girl can joke about my big nose, I'm allowed to make fun of her meaty calves.

This sort of reciprocity is dangerous. It tends to end up as "If somebody else does something ever and I don't see them immediately called out for it, then I'm automatically allowed to do anything I see as equivalent and should never face any consequences ever for it."

It's an argument it's easy to end up making in your head, but it falls down in several ways. The things you want to be equivalent may not be, either in general (making fun of a lady's thighs is more equivalent to mocking a gentleman for lack of career or height, or for being creepy, whereas his nose is more or less irrelevant to his value) or specifically (your attack on her thighs might be a lot more direct, nasty and out of context than her joke about your nose). Also, she may well face social consequences for mocking your nose that you're not aware of, or have to be very careful to mock your nose in an obviously not-really-mocking way in order to avoid them.

Don't flirt if you're not interested in sex.

Completely disagree. Practice flirting is completely normal, and also lots of fun.

Also, any sentiment of "don't do X unless you plan to have sex" is pretty rapey. What happens when people in fact do do X and don't plan to have sex?

I will not lower the bar for you in sports if you choose to play with men instead of women.

Fair enough. Make sure you don't actually raise it in your zeal to avoid lowering it, or treat what would have been a casual competition as deadly serious because you don't want to be beaten by a girl.

Crying is a cowardly way of winning an argument.

Crying can stop arguments, but I've never understood why it's seen as winning them. Being upset and wanting to stop arguing isn't unreasonable, and I don't have any problem with it being a limited trump card in the sense of "it's no longer acceptable for you to try to force me to agree".

Of course manipulative crying exists and can be used aggressively, essentially to force you to agree or she won't stop showing you how much you're hurting her and what a monster you are for your failure to completely cave. I still don't see that as cowardly, in particular, but it's unpleasant and I won't entertain it.

If you're dressed like a whore, you will be treated like a whore.

You've lost me here.

2012-12-31T10:41:39+00:00

Number 5 seems irrational, if you think a woman is dressed like a whore you will pay her for sex?

Number three is also retarded.

AnnArchist · 2012-12-31T07:34:40+00:00

your 3rd point is bullshit. flirt if you want to. . .

The last point is awful too. The rest are reasonable. but those aren't proper.

2012-12-31T12:50:17+00:00

They're absolutely right you won't go far if you express these opinions publicly.

2012-12-31T10:52:28+00:00

Yeah, that last one, what I'm hearing is "IF you dress in a way that makes me think you're a whore, I'll treat you like I would treat a whore." I mean that's just about you, not everybody. In fact, not many men. More women think shit like that than men, in my experience. I could be wrong.

rightsbot · 2012-12-31T07:08:18+00:00

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kersius · 2012-12-31T16:03:49+00:00

1) I would rephrase this as: A woman should get the same punishment for hitting a man as a man gets for hitting a woman. 2) I see this as similar to my #1. He could be very sensitive about his nose and it's not ok to mock people. 3) I disagree completely. Flirting doesn't have to mean sex. 4) I'm not very athletic so I don't know about this one, but I don't play with people that are out of my league unless everyone knows its just a friendly game b/c I don't want to slow people down. 5) I have run into the idea that if a woman cries in an argument then the man is a horrible monster and should be ridiculed. Emotions should not be used manipulatively by anyone. Any argument/discussion should be done reasonably, openly, safely, and honestly. So I can understand where you're coming from on this one. 6) Treat people with respect. Period.

C0CKPUNCHER · 2012-12-31T08:37:45+00:00

The last one doesn't work, it can be pointed at anyone. If you dress like a nerd expect to be treated like a nerd, if you dress like cattle expect to be treated like cattle, if you dress like a loser expect, dress like a nun expect - etc etc.

CaptainVanderdecken · 2012-12-31T14:28:09+00:00

Don't talk to others, do the META analysis on your points. If a girl is:

physically abusive
emotionally abusive
hyper sexual (flirting)
gender dismorphic
childishly manipulative
hyper sexual

THEN she is likely Axis 2 Custer B Personality Disordered (Borderline, Narcissistic, Histrionic) AND should be avoided like Ebola. Unfortunately so many women match the symptom set these days. These disorders are character based, learned behaviours. There may be Axis 1 medical reasons (ADHD, Bipolar, Scizophrenia) but..

Who Cares. Don't engage with crazy people & don't stick your dick in crazy. What you have described are red flags, turn & avoid damaged people because you cannot change them.

2012-12-31T14:29:49+00:00

"Don't flirt if you're not interested in sex."

This is the only one I disagree with. I reserve the right to flirt with women if I fucking feel like it and not give them the peen.

Pecanpig · 2012-12-31T10:53:02+00:00

I agree across the board.

mikesteane · 2012-12-31T12:15:49+00:00

Agreed.

Title	Kindly indulge me in regards to some of my beliefs. My guy friends think I'm a disrespectful a-hole and I will never go anywhere in life if I express them publicly.
Author	kjn4
Upvotes	0
Comments	21
Date	December 31, 2012 7:07 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/15ppxl/kindly_indulge_me_in_regards_to_some_of_my/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/kindly-indulge-me-in-regards-to-some-of-my-beliefs.1005382 https://theredarchive.com/post/1005382

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